So now that you killed The Fall, can you please make The Rise a pvp zone?

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by belijaal, Oct 28, 2017.

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  1. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

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    Exactly. Some of the best farming zones in the game haven't changed for a year or so... They were never balanced.

    But that is okay. In a sandbox game there are usually many ways to success, just this game needs more sand to play with.
    I like that they change the pace of the game. Roaming around should be encouraged and with lower load times, not annoying anymore :)
     
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  2. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

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    Agreed which could be done simply by getting ride of the lost of exp from joining parties that way the same amount of experience is gained from solo and party play. Then we would travel everywhere more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
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  3. Vallo Frostbane

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    I currently test a chinese game where they encourage grouping by giving out more XP when u play with others and do missions for your faction/side together with players from your side.
     
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  4. Sara Dreygon

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    Game would be a LOT more fun for parties and higher level players wouldn't mind multiple lower level players tagging along if the XP split was 100/1, 80/2, 70/3, 60/4 instead of the 100/1, 70/2, 50/3, 40/4 that it is now.
     
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  5. Halvard

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    yeah if fun was measured in exp... nah im messing with you I wouldnt mind that at all :p
     
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  6. Sara Dreygon

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    Touche... I do mix up XP and fun quite often :p.
     
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  7. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Short story time.. back in my Neverwinter Night's Days we originally had a small XP penalty for grouping. Even though you would still get more XP in a group (because you're killing things faster).. all people really saw was that the XP per individual kill was lower than going solo and people felt discouraged from grouping.

    Eventually, in the server's more twilight days when the other DMs dropped off and I could do whatever the hell I darn well pleased (bwahahahahahaaa) I changed the rules to give a 10% XP hike per extra party member.. ie 2 people get a 10% boost.. 3 get 20% etc.. and capped it at 30 or 40%.. well it didn't take long before everyone was grouping up whether they were in the same zone or not (also required). You logged in, you got an invite.

    We also had a rule regarding level differences. If you were too far from the party's "average level" you'd get less XP. at 6 levels from average (either up or down) you took a 20% hit.. at 10+ you got no XP. Though that only prevented power leveling in extreme cases as the level range was only 1-40 but it was more effective than not. (we had a lot of other left over balance issues but that's another story :) )
     
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  8. Vallo Frostbane

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    Definetly supports social interaction. But SotA is too much of a hugfest already :) Once virtues matter and are a source of conflict I would be all for it.
     
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  9. Soryu

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    Now that is an ignorant response to suggest taking advantage of game mechanics is an EXPLOIT.

    The following are couple of examples of game mechanics.

    If you are behind a mob even while visible, the mob does not see you. You have multiple options of attacks to take advantage of your position and kill the mob more rapidly while taking less damage. And you suggest that is an EXPLOIT, plain and simple?

    The game also includes line of sight features. Mobs cannot see you if terrain features block their line of sight and they cannot attack you. The reverse is also true, you cannot attack the mob. However, by properly positioning yourself, you can attack one mob while other mobs cannot see you and are far enough away to not aggro. These are game designs which are in the game for player tactical use. And you suggest that is an EXPLOIT, plain and simple?

    A proper example of an exploit would taking advantage of a game bug for player advantage. Taking advantage of game features which are intended for use in game play is not an EXPLOIT, plain and simple.

    And of course there can never be balance in the context you describe it. When designers discuss balance, it is usually in the context of a set of parameters they determine significantly over powered. When it becomes so obviously overpowered, then many players gravitate to that specific build which defeats the purpose of optional character builds.

    Personally, if you want game balance I would suggest you learn chess. Of course, then someone does get to move first.

    Soryu
     
  10. Halvard

    Halvard Avatar

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    Wasnt it a bug that was fixed?
     
  11. Andartianna

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    No I was there when the dev's came over to look. It was not bugged. It still works exactly the same just takes a lot longer time between spawns.
     
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  12. Soryu

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    The Fall was NOT a bug fix. It was a change to the spawn rate of the mobs. Nothing other than the spawn rate has changed. I do not think you can refer to the spawn rate as a bug since it is working as intended. There are also other mobs in the game with rapid spawn rates. Nearly all mobs in zones that I play in re-spawn faster than the ones in The Fall.

    When your player becomes stuck or you fall through the world, that is a bug.
     
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  13. Bowen Bloodgood

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    The strict definition of a 'bug' can vary from person to person. 'Working as intended' can still have unintended side affects which can be (by some) still considered a bug.. where "as intended" becomes unintended and needing fixing. In a lot of ways it can be arguing over semantics. Whether it's technically a 'bug' or not is not important. What is important is the end result.
     
  14. Soryu

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    You are 100% correct. In my opinion the classic interpretation of a "bug" would be an unintended error in code which results in unpredictable results such as falling through the world. And as we all know, the bugs are unintentional and often hard to find since they often manifest themselves only when variable parameters or conditions are present. Again, and in my opinion, "bugs" differ from errors in design where the design functions as intended but returns unwanted results within the game environment.

    In this case, and in my opinion I suggest the game designers determined the experience gain was too rapid and they made a decision to nerf it. However, as per my posts I am uncertain if they accounted for all of the beneficial intangibles the zone offered and I only offered my opinion.

    And finally, I do agree it is semantics. However, definitions are important and when someone posts "oh, it was a bug fix", that is simply not accurate at all. Whether the end result is positive or negative remains to be seen. Since the patch, the zone has been sparsely populated. Some had suggested that means it is a poorly designed zone. However, once upon a time it was over populated. Does that mean it was a greatly designed zone?

    Soryu
     
  15. Antrax Artek

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    I noticed i used the term "Bug", really sorry for that, was not properly a "Bug" but just a strategy/tip which gave the possibility to took advantage of the design/cooldown of the room.
    (As has already been said, many was able to clean the room without need to do that)

    The main problem now is the exaggerated cooldown of the room event (A dragon takes less time to respawn).
    Even this can be called "bug"? @Weins201
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
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  16. Bowen Bloodgood

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    What a lot of players (my opinion here) don't want to acknowledge is that when too many players gravitate towards a particular thing.. that thing is over powered and needs to be taken down a notch (or three). Whether it's a build, a skill, a piece of gear, a buff, an encounter or a zone. Over use by players is a sign something's unbalanced in the player's favor.

    The opposite of course, also tends to be true. When players avoid a thing overly much it's probably unbalanced against the players.

    What the recent change is? I think it's perhaps too soon to tell but it sounds like a lot of players have migrated towards the next easiest zone. So is the Fall under powered? Or is it closer to being just right and another zone is over powered? Hopefully that won't take too long to figure out.

    All your average player really knows is what is working well for them and what isn't.
     
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  17. Andartianna

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    The problem with this statement is that in this case there is no other dungeon option. The Fall is the only PVP dungeon in the entire game. There is no other place above tier 5 to go. So saying that there needs to be a change there because other places aren't balance which there are none is basically saying there should be no places for high end pvp only content. What this has done is pushed pvpers into pve zones which in turn means less experience for pvers since they will be pushed out of mmo and into friends only.
     
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  18. Bowen Bloodgood

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    2 Things.. First, I wasn't specifically referring to the Fall. I was making a generalized statement. If players are leaving the Fall for other locations then obviously there are other players to go. They just aren't PvP only zones. Secondly, the fact that the Fall is a PvP dungeon was irrelevant to the point I was making which was mainly in the context of XP / PvE encounters. If the issue not getting "enough XP" then the zone rules are not the issue here. Furthermore, that people are moving around by itself is not indication there other areas are unbalanced.

    But also what you are implying here is that PvPers should get areas with more XP than non-PvPers and also that the two play styles should be segregated. This doesn't need to be the case. Rather the PvP rules should be redone so that special zone rules are unnecessary.
     
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  19. Andartianna

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    This entired conversation is about the Fall so what you are saying is you are off topic and should delete your post? Also I don't know where you are getting the idea there was more exp in the fall you can get the same amount of exp in both K'rul and the Rise.I am also not implying anything but parity for experience between pvp and pve so I don't know where you are getting that either. This is all mote anyways it's getting fixed on the next release so no worries.
     
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  20. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Which includes XP and balance in the Fall which you should know well.

    Perhaps from your comments regarding people going elsewhere for their XP? Or other people saying that people are leaving because the XP isn't as good with the recent change? If there's no reason to elsewhere.. then why are people complaining about the Fall being empty? What else has changed apart from a slower spawn rate resulting in less XP?

    That's fine I've no idea where you're getting your ideas either. But if XP between PvE and PvP is equal.. then what reason does any PvPer have for leaving the Fall after the recent change? The only factor I can think of is XP not being better than elsewhere and/or they don't want to PvP for the current level of XP in the Fall. Which would be more of an indication of the state of PvP than the Fall I should think.

    And then why would you argue there's no where else to go in response to comments regarding balance if the XP is just as good in at least two other places?

    What part of this doesn't suggest XP was better in the Fall than in other places if one of the chief complaints in this whole thread is that the spawn rates are lower resulting in less XP? I mean the titles of the thread starts with "Now that you KILLED The Fall.." and the conversation starts with the Fall being a grind spot..

    No longer a great 'grind spot' = less XP = people leaving.. You of all people should know better than most the levels of XP obtainable in high level zones.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
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