Combat system / newbie feedback about it

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by LoneWerewolf, Dec 4, 2017.

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  1. mass

    mass Avatar

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    I know for me, if I'm fighting something yellow to me (particularly melee), it takes what seems like a long time to beat him over the head with my halberd to finally take him out. I'm never in danger of dying or being defeated (unless a bunch of other mobs all the sudden respawn) but I just have to sit there and whack him over the head. Battles that don't resolve under a minute for relatively common mobs get to feel grindy very quickly. It sometimes feels like combat is designed around gating time rather than to provide a strategic challenge.

    As well, due to the deck building, a lot of the 'strategy' is in the time building the deck. That feels clunky to me; I'd rather have the strategy occur mostly on the battlefield. I'm pretty sure I run around unoptimized most of the time because in my hour of playtime, I don't want to spend a quarter of it deck building.
     
  2. Nelzie

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    Skilling everything is not likely to change. The class we all have is "Avatar".

    Listen... I took a ton of vaccines to get the Asperger's and I'm a hardheaded dude as a result. I was fighting the idea of anything other than specializing, until I realized that we are all the class of Avatar.

    You want to specialize? Excellent, in the right group and you will need to group, you can own the heck out of that role. I already have sketched out some ideas in my head about how to create specialized decks for taking up a role in a team, I have a whole slew of glyphs for healing, even Resurrection and I can build a nice healing type and include roots, which won't cause any damage, leaving my hooked up to provide maximum healing. I have ideas for putting together a massive rounds of damage, but no healing, no defense buffs, but constant glass cannon damage, I have ideas for a Sword and Board somewhere between DPS and Tank and a few others.

    That's where you have roles, in groups going out on an adventure to take on the bigger things.

    For solo PvE? It's good to be a jack of all trades.

    I will be very unhappy with the loss of being able to skill out everything, as a result of the kind of change you keep pushing. We're Avatars, that's what makes our characters special, no other beings in the game are like our characters. Kobolds, Elves, Bandits... none of those have Avatars, they are all specialized and need to be grouped up to be effective.
     
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  3. LoneWerewolf

    LoneWerewolf Guest

    Battles often take too long. The IMPACT of skills is missing. It does not feel powerful and instead slow. The cooldowns can add to the overall slow feeling.
    Also the card system feels too random. I like to have a strategy of how I fight but to do that I need to know which skills I have at what time - adding this additional layer just ads randomness, it just doesn't fit imo. This is great in a card game like MTG or HS. but I don't need it in my MMO.

    Google shroud of the avatar combat and you will see that it is one of the top 3 reasons why people who tried it don't play anymore. In my opinion this has to be addressed.
     
  4. Nelzie

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    With Mobs that are Yellow, but closer to the lower end of that for me, I can chew through them fairly quickly. With mobs that are yellow, closer to ALMOST orange, coupled with big self heals... Battles will indeed take "to long", but they sometimes don't.

    I handling three to five yellow mobs, sometimes with one or two flame and lightning bolt launching wizards at me, on the regular now. I beat them all with... some minor risk, especially if an archer shows up. Once you setup the right pile of glyphs, combat can go fairly swiftly when facing a good number of mobs.
     
  5. mass

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    I wonder if it could be balanced somehow, though. Like for people who restrict their skills to one magic class to get tiers of resistances to the rest. Like say you achieve level 40 in all water skills (but in no other magic trees), you get a 5% across the board resistance bonus. Then you get increases as you continue to level the single tree. That way people who want to dabble are forced to level all the individual resistances and those who want to specialize have a path to stay competitive.
     
  6. Hunter Rose

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    Definitely not having this experience at all. I have most of my target builds skills in the 60-80 range and I am shredding. It took me a bit, an I'm constantly modifying my deck based on target skills I want to build, but its fluid and very fast. Completely enjoying the combat system as is. I feel very unique :) Learning curve is rough. Patience pays off.
     
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  7. idaniod

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    The nice thing about the deck system.. is if it feels too random you can lock the cards!
     
  8. Sentinel2

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    Don't forget to mention there is a penalty for doing just that. In some cases the focus cost can be severe.
     
  9. idaniod

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    I don't see it as a penalty for that. I see it as a bonus for using random :)
     
  10. Jezebel Caerndow

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    Those people who are having a hard time, I find they have bad decks. When you have 9 locked glyphs, 14 dynamic built of your top 3 offensive skills, combat is hardly ever, "I am waiting for the right glyph". But I hear about people with 50+ glyphs in their deck, or only 1 locked skill, these people are having this problem not because of the game, but because they are not understanding the way decks work. Think of a deck of cards, and your are trying to pull face cards, you have 52 cards, only 12 are face cards, your odds of pulling a face card is just over 1 in 4. Now, you have a deck of cards of 14 of all face cards and you added 2 more kings then the usual 4 in a deck, your chance of pulling a face card is 100%. My buffs and heals are not dynamic, I need a buff when I need it, having it locked does exactly that for me. I need a heal when I need a heal, having it locked does exactly that for me. If your playing the roll of the healer then those 14 glyphs are not offence, but heals spells. Its a little harder in the beginning as you do not have skills to 80 to have 5 cards of that skill, so you just compensate with what you do have. getting skills to 40 is pretty easy and will give you 4 cards, so you have 4 of your top 4 skills skills with the weakest one only having 2 glyphs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  11. The Banker

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    This makes me laugh.


    Lets take a look at this skillful system


    Defense - Has very little to do with your combat tactics or strategy.

    The number 1 factor in determining your defense are dice rolls.

    Whether you take no damage or are 2 shot in a fight has nothing to do with how you played. It's how the computer decided to roll for you

    You don't cast Fortify Defense when you see the enemy casting it's most powerful attack. You cast it when that little timer on your buff is about to expire.

    You're positioning on the battlefield is mostly irrelevant.

    Why bother interrupting casts, stunning enemies, avoiding damage, and countless other defensive maneuvers?

    Casting a couple of defensive buffs repeatedly is far more skillful.


    Offense - Has very little to do with your combat tactics or strategy

    Drawing glyphs removes any strategic planning since you don't know what attacks will be available.

    % chance on some of the most basic things like even casting a spell (fizzle), stun chance, etc do not allow you to perform predictable effective CC's / attacks

    Ridiculous damage ranges on almost all skills remove any predictable burst damage

    Ineffective / non-existant countering system

    Too be frank it's not even worth continuing. I'd be here all day.




    Tedious is not the same thing as skillful.

    This games combat is all about interface management rather than tactics and strategy
     
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  12. Jezebel Caerndow

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    I guess getting cover is not a tactical move? Or using a height advantage as an archer? Or using the right buffs is not tactical? Or casting fortify after getting crit is not tactical? Or torpid tormenting someone with shield of air or chaotic feedback on is not a counter? Or trip, bodyslam, sneak attack from stealth, blinking a melee player, nightsteping an archer or mage, using shield of air on a death mage, or even just the advantage of knowing your opponent, is not tactical? What game you playing? I don't think its sota.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  13. LoneWerewolf

    LoneWerewolf Guest

    doing this grinds the whole system to a halt, and we both know it.
     
  14. Jezebel Caerndow

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    Does this look clunky or slow?
    Or this?
    Or this?
     
  15. Preachyr

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    um... yes

    spam a few hotbar buttons while standing in one place... how is that complex or tactical?

    Oh sorry, I see that you also got the timing for jumping down nicely... 1, 2, 3, jump, 1, 2, 3, jump. Very nice... very tactical :rolleyes:

    or more importantly.. can you please explain to me how this is any different than WoW combat which you seem to disparage so strongly?
     
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  16. Jezebel Caerndow

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    First off, not standing in one place, jumping knockdown ground pound and getting behind him is not standing in one place, but fighting him tactically, like, did you even watch the video? Secondly, please find where I said anything about wow and post it? Seeings how I have never played wow, I just don't see myself making that comment.
     
  17. MrBlight

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    .. i see you do nothing but jump vs the dragon?
    And i see nothing but the same sequence of buttons over n over vs the demon..

    Also a whole whopping 3 offensive buttons to hit... thats.. damn thats in depth man.

    Last time i logged in i killed thr troll by leaving auto attack on and jumping in circles.. tactics?

    Also.. you use no cover.. height advantages.. and you use the same buffs as evrryone else in all 3 videos lol..


    And thats ignoring the fact the bosses are the only ones who take half a thought to fight against lol. Show me all them tactics you need to fight normal mobs.
     
  18. Preachyr

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    Sorry, I edited my post just as you replied.

    So you did do some jumping to avoid the knockdown.

    Well... yay?

    1, 2, 3, jump.... 1, 2, 3, jump

    yes very tactical

    Sorry, you are correct that you didn't, I was looking at another poster who made comments who's name started with an M as well. My bad, and my apologies.

    My opinion is the same though. Your video shows very boring combat and other games do it much better. What you show in your video is not complex, or tactical, or interesting combat mechanics, in my opinion.
     
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  19. Jezebel Caerndow

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    What is your peoples definition of tactical? Please grab a dictionary, look up the word tactical. You will find using knowledge of your enemy to come up with a strategy. Adroit in planning or maneuvering to accomplish a purpose. Most other games I have played did not even have a jump, and was pretty much have tank a healer and some dps, and even they had tactics, as certain mobs did certain thing you had to react to, and know how to counter. Honestly, start listing some examples like I do, or your just blowing hot air.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  20. Preachyr

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    how many other MMO's have you played?

    For a very basic example, lets take Warhammer online.

    Melee classes had skills that required certain positions, like for example being at your opponents side or rear.

    This is also found in other games combat systems, as it's again a basic mechanic. That helps to make combat tactical because now positioning actually makes a difference.
     
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