Is too much emphasis being placed in Housing - A poll

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Phalanxx, Dec 14, 2013.

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Is too much emphasis being placed on Housing?

  1. Way too much

    22.5%
  2. Too much

    14.8%
  3. It's about right

    54.9%
  4. Too little

    4.2%
  5. Way too little

    3.5%
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  1. Owain

    Owain Avatar

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    From a game design point of view, housing is easy. It is mostly what decorations can be applied.

    Combat, monsters, crafting are all much more complex, and probably the designs are not even complete, let alone the coding.
     
  2. 3devious

    3devious Avatar

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    I voted way too little just to piss you off. If you think people are flaming/whining/etc. now just wait until combat is enabled.
     
  3. Count Napoli

    Count Napoli Avatar

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    Too much emphasis on housing by who? By the developers or by the players? If you say by the players, I would agree with you, and in that case the developers have no choice but to either follow along or potentially go out of business.
     
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  4. GimmeUOPlz

    GimmeUOPlz Avatar

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    Name one game ever that gave that kind of info out less than a year into development. Good luck.




    We know infinitely more than we would with any other game at this stage, and people STILL can't handle it. Blows my mind sometimes how some people will simply never ever be satisfied.
     
  5. will

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    I think it's too much, especially considering the prices of the lots. The least expensive lot I've seen in the store was $125 and that was discounted! Way too much for me.
     
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  6. E n v y

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  7. Phalanxx

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    First of all, Shroud of the Avatar is striving to be a different type of game, with a different development process, so that's not a particularly reasonable comment - from what I understand, they are striving to be better than others, and be transparent to their users. Our particular gripe is that so far this transparency has mostly been limited to housing, as opposed to other mechanics, more relevant to gameplay.

    Secondly, since you asked, Divinity: Origins, another RPG that finished it's kickstarter about the same time as Shroud of the Avatar, is releasing an alpha next week with about 10-20 hours of gameplay, including full quests, combat, dialog, etc. Much, much more than just walking around houses.



    The whole point of these early releases is to get useful, critical feedback from the users. Why are people moaning so much that we're actually doing what we've been asked?
     
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  8. Astrobia

    Astrobia Avatar

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    I find it amusing actually. The same thing was happening as far back as the kickstarter and the devs said then that they were just showing off housing as it something they can very quickly and easily roll out the door from the get go and know exactly how the whole system is going to work, so with all the higher tiers having housing it's a good thing they can easily demonstraight to their high investment backers and to encourage people to pledge more. The story? Needs alot of fleshing out and working on and even though that is done now they still can't discuss it with us because "spoilers" obviously. Conversation system? Ties into the story limitations. Combat? That's going to be a trial and error process to work out and so many other systems (crafting of weapons and amour, trade of those item, NPC's and Mobs to fight and their AI) need to be fleshed out and implemented at least foundationally before they can even start making promises on how that's going to pan out. So at these early stages other then housing what exactly would you like the devs to show off? You want them to spend 3 hours talking about how pretty their tree models are? Yesterday one of our graphic designers worked on a really nice rock. Oh you want to hear about combat? Hang on... No sorry we need to make more rocks for you to stand on while you are fighting first. :p

    Lets look at where we are. We've got the foundation of the conversation system, NPC scheduling, basic animal AI, basic movement controls, the inventory system, weather, town design, the paper doll and character creation... Good foundations... Crafting comes next release, then networking, THEN combat. To show of the town they had to work on buildings... Did you really think they weren't going to let you seen player housing at this point? Sure it's not as an important a core mechanic as the story progression or combat.. It's not like it's slowing development on those things down either.

    But by all means whinge, and show us your impatience... Because I get it. You are passionate. I want to see and dissect the combat system and story as well. It's not housing's fault though, the fact you think it is that makes threads like this funny to me. What? You think their 3D modeller specialising in architecture is jumping up in down in the designers and writers rooms telling them to drop everything until he's finished with knights castle? :p

    Edit: Actually it occurs to me that even for that guy housing hasn't been the number 1 priority. I mean we got the dungeon kit first, and the cave kit...
     
  9. Original

    Original Avatar

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    My answer may be biased but yes, I feel there is too much emphasis on housing.

    But I am someone who doesn't want a big house. I just want a simple one room house where I can store all my stuff.
     
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  10. alexmreis

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    Housing is a big deal. It's what made UO unique and makes it survive to this day. In no other game would it be alright to become a crafter who settles down in a town and lives off selling his craftsmanship to fellow citizens.

    That said, as in every software project, the main goal should be to mitigate risk and to build the most important features first so they can be iterated on.

    I think one can look at the priorities issue from several angles. Suppose you're the head of the SotA team at Portalarium. Here's a few things going through your head:

    Risk #1 - No one might be interested in the game in the first place

    Given how successful the Kickstarter has been, I think it's fair to say this risk is mitigated already. We've got 25k people interested in it that together offered the team almost $3M to play with and make something we will love.

    Risk #2 - We might not get enough money to keep servers running for too long after everyone that would buy a copy has already done so (or already pledged for one).
    • Hypothesis A: Players would like to own their own houses in premium locations in-game, and are willing to part with ~$150 for a house and village lot.
      • Experiment A (running): Show housing in our early demos, get players excited about them and hope they will buy them in our Add On store. Successful if %5-20% of the players end up paying for 100% of the server/update development costs
    • Hypothesis B: Players would prefer to earn their houses through in-game labour but are willing to pay a monthly fee to play. Works for WoW.
    • Hypothesis C: Players are willing to pay for items that are hard to get in-game. Enough players will pay enough money to keep things going. Doesn't seem to work all too well, and every MMO on its graveyard seems to pass by this one last attempt before they call it a day.
    • Hypothesis D: Players will buy a new expansion every year and that will be enough to cover our dev / server costs. Guild Wars was fairly successful at that, as has been Diablo 3 so far (yes kids, D3 is a single player online game, you're always playing it on a server).

    Risk #3 - Players might not find our game unique and interesting enough to choose it over AAA MMOs
    • Hypothesis A: An immersive housing and decoration system will matter to players
    • Hypothesis B: An immersive and detailed crafting system in compliment to housing will matter
    • Hypothesis C: Non-linear stories told through interactive, natural language driven text conversations with NPCs will matter
    • Hypothesis D: Players don't want to run from one marker in the map to the next to get questing done, but would rather discover things to do based on chats to townsfolk.
    These are the cards they have opened so far in the table (with some speculation from my part), and they seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. Now let's have a look at the other things that people have been asking for

    Combat

    Refined from Akalabeth! to Ultima 9, combat has been ever present in every Ultima game. Yes, SotA is new IP, but the team's experience in building the great games we've all played cannot be underestimated. This is a non-risk from their point of view, as they surely can make it work.

    Magic

    Same as with combat, this team has done this time and again. Magic systems have changed from game to game in the series, but ultimately, RG knows how to pull this one off. We might need a few tweaks, and I'm sure we're in for quite a few surprises, but they're sure they can build something that works.

    Questing

    I think this is a major thing and should be tested ASAP - but as others said, it does take a bit more time to put together in a presentable state. I personally am hoping for the return of the Quest of the Avatar, but one can only wish :) I'm hoping some of it will be in the early releases very soon.

    If you ask me, the biggest risk for this game is not being able to pull off a modern and fresh feeling experience due to its veneration of the past. If the graphics look right (and I mean Torchlight right, not Witcher / Skyrim right) and the gameplay is enjoyable, I'm sure the other bits can be ironed out.

    I voted Way too much BTW, as I'd love to see their focus shift into questing now that they've gotten their feet wet with the housing being a valid revenue stream. If it turns out not to be, hell, we might be getting a "Custom Renaissance Outfits" early release instead and see them popping up in the add on store, which is all fine by me.

    My 2c, YMMV, IMHO and every other "please don't be offended as I don't speak from a shrine of absolute truth" acronym and expression available in the English language.

    @alexmreis
     
  11. smack

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  12. Alayth

    Alayth Avatar

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    But remember how bad combat was in Ultima 7? I actually think they did a better job in the early (1-3) than in the later (7-9). This is part of what concerns me - If combat is as unrefined as it was in the later Ultimas, that sucks and it's unlikely this game is going to hold my attention for long. UO did a great job, though. I think it's really up in the air whether the combat is going to be good or not. If relatively little dev time is being spent on this, that's a big problem to me (and it looks like that might be the case: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/standup-corner.2315/page-6#post-89441). Obviously there are a lot of core systems that need to get working, too, but to me combat is about as core as it comes. If they have a lot more done than they're telling us, then my criticism is different: housing is boring to me (and according to this poll, about a third of players - and I bet that's a low estimate since higher-pledgers with houses are more likely to peruse the forums), and I find it hard to maintain any level of interest in this game when that's all we're updated on. Why not a more balanced approach to the updates? Admittedly, they have gotten better recently, now that they're releasing info about the story. But still nothing about gameplay, and still something about a new house or decoration or basement every update.

    I find it weird how many people are claiming we haven't been hearing about combat/monsters (or almost anything other than housing) in the updates because they haven't gotten far enough in development. Why, then, were they posting monster concept art months ago (https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/concept-art-enemies.2694/ https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/concept-art-sota-enemy-dark-spawn.3210/)? Why haven't we seen anything like this in the updates, and instead we just see stuff that's going up for sale in the store? I'm much more likely to buy the crafting stuff in the store if I understand how crafting is going to work, and I'm more likely to put money into the game (upping my pledge to get a house, or buying whatever add-ons from the store) if I was shown something a bit deeper about the game - even if it's just concept art.
     
  13. Alayth

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    I think that's a totally legitimate point, but it's hard not to read some prioritization into their ordering. First release - basic client stuff, and housing. Combat comes 3 releases later. When this is combined with the constant updates about new houses and new housing decorations, and no new concept art or basic game mechanic info, it gets worrying/frustrating/leads to people making threads like this.
     
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  14. Lord Kiron Maedun

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    Combat coming later could very well be to how complex it is, Housing for coding that is, is a lot easier to handle then crafting or combat.
     
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  15. Hempy Do`Herben

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    I didnt like housing all that much to start but after hours of playing last night and some time today before my football games started and IT HAS GROW on me ALOT! I can't wait to earn loot and decorate my real home with it :) I really like the aspect of thinking all my good loot and tresures I earn through-out my SotA lifetime i can display in my home. On walls, tables, the ground. That is pretty sweet to me because i love the loot and to be able to display it is a + in my book.

    I 100% AGREE w/ the TOO MANY of the same fantasy homes (especially windmill) BUNCHED in a town breaking IMMERSION.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...-house-eye-sore-when-grouped.5580/#post-91575
     
  16. smack

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    And likely only the stuff they're willing to reveal.
     
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  17. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    I think there was too little on housing. Where were the basements, you know?

    I made sure with my KickStarter pledge SotA ep 1 will be made no matter what.
     
  18. mikeaw1101

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    I think the housing was used as a way to attract backers... You know, a little something for your hard-earned $$. It is an independently produced game, after all. I fink there will be much more to this game than just housing for the backers - just a thought but y'know, fings happen.
     
  19. jondavis

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    No, there are still many questions I have about houses.
     
  20. Pendragon

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    I just assumed this housing stuff was just a distraction, until they had the other stuff ready to show off. I enjoyed housing in UO but it wasn't the reason i stayed so long. We have to remember though the game is still in the early stages. They will be hitting us with the milk and cookies soon enough. Besides people are laying down a ton of coin for a home in this game. I don't blame them for show casing it first. If you have no interest or desire for housing, just wait in a month or two you'll see more of what interests you. Trading and combat will be rolled out soon enough.


    (Edit) rum & forums don't mix
     
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