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[Please read crafters] UI changes, skill level vs proficiency

Discussion in 'Crafting, Harvesting, Salvage, & Agriculture' started by Proteus Tempest, Jan 17, 2018.

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  1. Proteus Tempest

    Proteus Tempest Avatar

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    1/17/2018 6:31 AM
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    Reproduction Rate: 100
    Blocker? no
    Details: The table top catapult recipe on the crafting station window NOW requires a score of 90 in carpentry when it use to be 70. Is this now intended?
    Steps to Reproduce:
    User Specs:
    OS: Windows 10 (10.0.0) 64bit
    CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6850K CPU @ 3.60GHz (12) System RAM: 32675
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 GPU RAM: 8086
    SotA.EarlyAccess.QA.Win.64.614.Date.01.16.18
    Area: POT_island_metropolis_01a_template/Tempest Reef
    Area Display Name: Tempest Reef
    Loc: (11.2, 90.5, 26.2)
    Debug: UE9UX2lzbGFuZF9tZXRyb3BvbGlzXzAxYV90ZW1wbGF0ZXxUZW1wZXN0IFJlZWZ8KDExLjIyMywgOTAuNDc3LCAyNi4yMjIpfCgwLCAxLCAwLCAwKXwxNjUuODI3OXwyOC4yOTkzMnw4LjgxNjI4OA==
     
  2. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    level 100 carpentry is actually just over 70 proficiency on live, so if it's only requiring level 90 after the conversion that's a reduction, not an increase. ...but it is odd that there's such a disparity.
     
  3. Proteus Tempest

    Proteus Tempest Avatar

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    I'm finding others that have changes and I cannot do them after having been crafting them in the past.
     
  4. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    i do not know. if they're not gonna make them equal, reducing the requirements after the conversion makes sense in a we-don't-want-to-take-things-away-from-people way, just to be safe, but increasing them makes me think someone just mathed wrong.
     
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  5. Proteus Tempest

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    I understand what mathed wrong is. ;)
     
  6. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

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    The change is that instead of using proficiency, use skill level instead for all crafting prerequisites. All player references to proficiency have been removed. Required skill levels for recipes and enhancements have been moved to reference skill level now. All tool, table, artifact and consumables crafting level modifiers now directly add to skill level.

    The goal long term is to stop the confusion some new players face, but for those used to it - remember you are looking at skill level now, not proficiency.

    @Proteus Tempest
    @Alley Oop
     
  7. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

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    Stickying thread for visibility. Please keep the above information in mind when reporting issues. I'll still review these as bugs, but I want to make sure everyone understands the changes first :)
     
  8. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    That's a great change - much less confusing! :)
     
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  9. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

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  10. Proteus Tempest

    Proteus Tempest Avatar

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    @Lexie

    I don't recall all the details to the required proficiency in the past but..... Once I got them into my recipe book I was able to craft them with the +5 from the crafting station. When I did not meet the criteria I was not able to learn the recipe so the recipe would not be entered into my recipe book.

    Now I simply cannot do them.

    But the change to just using level instead of proficiency is a good change.
     
  11. monkeysmack

    monkeysmack Avatar

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    Yeah, it will be much less confusing.. good idea.
     
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  12. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    @Lexie, the bug i though here was the change in requirements. a 70 proficiency requirement being converted to a 100 level requirement is NOT actually a requirement change, it's stating the same info a different way. @Proteus Tempest is saying there are recipes that aren't just restating their requirement in the new way, but actually changed their requirement.
     
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  13. Daxxe Diggler

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    @Proteus Tempest - Perhaps when you were able to do it before, you were using a +5 crafting table AND had the appropriate blessing that gave another +5 to that skill (previously proficiency)?
     
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  14. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    Before the crafting tables provided a +5 proficiency buff. I suspect that now the bonus is a +5 skill level buff (it doesn't say what the +5 bonus is when you use the crafting table). It would seem that +5 proficiency isn't equal to +5 skill. :)
     
  15. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

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    Bug #: 54865 - Crafting stations not correctly checking required level
     
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  16. jiirc

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    There were two other buffs to proficiency as well: bronze tools and devotional buffs. They both just say +x now. These should be considered along with the crafting stations as they may not have the same impact as before.
     
  17. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

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    @jiirc
    These look like they have changed on build 618. I say that because I'm seeing a different number than before...Metropolis with +3 when before it was +5. Speaking of devotionals. What # are you seeing for the bronze tools?
    The bug with the crafting stations is open, which until fixed will probably skew your results :/
     
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  18. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    I looked on QA 618 just now.

    Tool with True Bronze Engravings
    I checked four tools I have with True Bronze Engraving. On Live the tooltips show +5 proficiency. On QA 618 they show +5, no skill level or proficiency modifier. When I do a /stats on QA 618, when the field dressing tool is equipped then again when the tool is unequipped, I see a field dressing level property that is 5 when it is equipped and 0 when it is isn't equipped. On live these values are quite a bit higher, for me it was 73+ (if I remember correctly).

    Devotionals
    I looked at a couple of devotionals on QA 618. On live the devotionals give you a +5 proficiency. On QA 618, the tool tip shows +5. Checking the stats log before and after using the devotional on QA, before using the devotional the Blacksmith level field is 0. After using the devotional the field is 5.

    Crafting Stations
    I looked at the crafting stations as well. Iwas on a carpentry and milling, but could have checked others. The text for the station says +5 without any modifier, while Live would say +5 proficiency. Whle standing at the carpentry table, with it open ready to craft, checking /stats shows that the carpentry level is 0. I would have expected it to be 5, if things work like the tools, Or maybe this was updated to change the carpentry level already. I can't tell because there isn't a carpentry level field that reflects my carpentry level in the stats log.
     
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  19. Daxxe Diggler

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    ^^^ That right there tells me that the +5 from expert stations is not being added to our stats. Could be the reason for other issues too (like not being able to craft recipes we could before due to level requirements).
     
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  20. CatweazleX

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    hopefully i can write it here else i open a new thread

    the crafting buffs does not reflect the changes (they are to weak now):

    in R49 the Ring of Jones gives +5 cooking proficiency in R50 it gives +5 cooking skill (this seems not migrated)
    in R49 Dragon Stew requires 60 cooking proficiency in R50 it requires 70 cooking skill (this seems migrated)
    at cooking skill 77:
    - without a buff on a normal cooking station it is 51% success chance in R49 and R50
    - with Ring of Jones on a normal cooking station it is in R49 60% success chance and R50 55%
    - with Ring of Jones on a expert cooking station it is in R50 58% success chance

    even with 2 buffs compared to 1 buff in R49 you don't get the same success chance it was/is in R49
    if i understand it right, proficiency still exists in R50 but will not shown to the user. He/She only see skill requirement in R50
    skill 77 is proficiency 62.1. in R49 Ring of Jones adds 5 to proficiency that result in 67.1 proficiency or a skill of ca. 91/92. In R49 it is comparable to add 15 skill points.
    in R50 the ring adds 5 to skill that result in 82 skill or a proficiency of 64.0. That are 9-10 skill points less or 3.1 proficiency less. So the ring becomes a +2 cooking proficiency, that is less then the half.
    Ring + expert adds 10 to skill in R50. 77 + 10 = 87 skill or ca. 65.4 proficiency that is even 2.7 proficiency points less as in R49 with only one buff.

    looking at the proficiency and success chance the results becomes explainable:
    Dragon Stew 70 skill (60 proficiency), cook at 77 skill
    77 skill (62.1 proficiency) = 51% success chance (no buffs, only the cook in R49 and R50)
    82 skill (64.0 proficiency) = 55% success chance (Ring of Jones: 1x +5 skill buff in R50)
    87 skill (~65.4 proficiency) = 58% success chance (Ring of Jones + Expert table: 2x +5 skill in R50)
    ~92 skill (67.1 proficiency) = 60% success chance (Ring of Jones: 1x +5 proficiency in R49)

    Another example are the houses. In R49 the proficiency requirement are 65, 70 and 75. In R50 the skill requirement are 80, 90 and 100, that are lower skill requirements as in R49.
    In R49 skill 73 or 74 should give you proficiency of ~60. With 3 +5 buffs one is able to build every house in R49.
    In R50 one need 7 or 8 +5 buffs to reach the same. Or at skill 80 one need 4 +5 buffs and that is because the requirements where lowered.

    i suggest that the +5 proficiency items gives +10 skill, and the +3 proficiency items gives +5 skill in R50, when requirements are lowered. Else +15 skill / +7.5 skill.
    or +20% skill and +10% skill. That makes the items stronger at higher skill levels as it was in R49.

    However, you do not change the recipes for the engraving tools. That makes them to costly compared to the benefit of only +5 / +3 skill buff.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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