The Hard Caps and Tree limit Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stundorn, Jan 20, 2018.

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  1. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    Maybe we find some who argue pro hard caps and tree limits instead of personal opinions against me, rate me or tell my what i do, think or should do and not think or whatever.

    Well, i would like hard caps, limiting trees, no deck swapping, i like death decay, i dislike the new Map, i dislike waving, sparkling NPC and stuff like that.

    Hm...
    Big red Capital Letters in the OP havent helped, funny forum.
     
  2. Alrik Doom

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    As funny as you asking to cap everyone else due to your wants! Get the point already!

    Foolishness is for assumptions which you have clearly made!

    P.S. Wanna talk about our investments into SotA, Looking at your toon, I've clearly played more then you! Investment wise, you own a pot, guess you have me beat there!
     
  3. Brass Knuckles

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    **Fake News**

    1st you have not read my posts and are very confused if you think my point is about capping people, its about a viable alt system and I mentioned there were more than one way to do it. And yes one of the ways to do it is to follow the uo model of hard capping, but a mastery system might do it as well but I've said all this many times however you keep just making up what ever you want and try to give me credit for it.

    2nd thats multiple towns, but its not about the amount of dollars its about the idea of investing into the company. People put their time and money into something generally want it to be successful.

    3rd ive two high level characters id be very surprised if you did have more time in, but id be happy for you if you did there arnt very many who can say that. Heck my qa time alone is respectable in its own right.

    I think what you really want to do is cause problems where the thread gets locked am I right?

    Im sorry stun, I was just trying to add value to the conversation ill back away and let you have at it again.I Got distracted by people making stuff up. ;(
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  4. Alrik Doom

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    ROFL
     
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  5. Solazur

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    The question is... who do you think you should be competitive with? It'd seem to me like you should be competitive with anybody else your level. What is it you want? DO you think you should be competitive with people who have put in 5 or 10X the amount of effort you have? That's just silly. Sorry mate. no disrespect meant here but I'd submit if you spent more time playing and less time posting you'd see your levels going up.

    Ya know.. fwiw.. There are numerous players (if we're talking about being competitive in PvP) who are probably 10 or more levels lower than me who would wipe the floor with me in a PvP match... it's something I've not worked on that much yet.

    Just speaking for myself... I'm not in a competition with anybody. Period. I'm playing My game.. the way I want to play it. I don't worry about what others have.
     
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  6. Stundorn

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    Of course!!!

    I find it completely outlandish of all of you to talk about work and effort all the time while we talk about a game.
    Especially a so called Roleplaying Game.

    I dont worry too, i just want a mediocre, fair and balanced game if we talk about sandbox PvP.
    Like in UO maybe?
    Heck why they hat caps and limits.
    Need to be something they totally missed back then and it's a long overdue to have games with PvP and endless progression.

    But i'm sure this is a big success, see all those fans playing.
    Nobody left because of Design choices like that.
    I'm sure they all left because of...
    Grafic, UI or something like that.
    No way someone could criticise this unique and amazing skill and progression system.
     
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  7. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    @Stundorn ok, so let's keep your idea on topic. I don't agree with you but maybe examples of games, be they online or offline or even pen and paper would help me to see your point. Could you be so kind and throw me a couple of examples?
     
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  8. Solazur

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    Mensch! Das darfst du nicht so eng sehen
     
  9. Yakamo LLTS

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    Respektiere meine Autorität!
     
  10. Stundorn

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    UO?
    Almost every pen and paper game has rules to have nobody OP.
    At least my parties (GM for some years AD&D and 7 years a rolemaster campaign) were never about progression.
    The newest development create even playfield for everybody and scale players down, like TESO, GW, WOW?
    I didnt proof, just read about it.
    Lineage had caps, DAOC had caps, DFO had caps...

    Can you give me some examples of sandbox games with PvP without caps and where you not need to make choices and can level everything?
    Macht nicht nur mir das Spiel kaputt.
    Gibt Leute die wollen endgame ala UO, SWG, Neocron z.B.
    Mit dem Avatar? Schwieritsch :D
     
  11. Ronni

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    Just a few words from me: Stundorn you wrote that you played 2 hours on average per day over 18 months. And now please all take into consideration that means for an adult person with a full time job (and maybe a partner or family) that you invest your major free time per day into SotA! That is not casual for me... and even with this time invest I cannot compete with any heavy player. So even if I would like to, I will never play PVP in SotA with exception of role-play based PVP.
    That is sad.
    On the other side, having a harder cap would mean that I suppose a harder death decay. When I have a playing Session of 60 minutes and need 30 minutes to recover from death, I will avoid death at any price.
    But I agree that we need a stronger hard cap as I think majority of players will be more likely casual if the game will be successful after Launch.
    Just my few words on my way to the office...
     
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  12. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    UO had, like every modern MMO you listed, an item and min/maxing race. I really don't know if that preferable and it for sure won't stop the grind.

    The P&P back in my days had no hard cap. They had a max level, yes, but there was always progression beyond that level. Slowed progression of course but progression non the less. So actually pretty much like it is here.

    As i said above: EvE.

    Und um das ganze mal zum Schluss zu bringen: Das Game, dass du willst, gibt es nicht. Man könnte nun drüber diskutieren ob SotA zu dem Game werden könnte, dass du gerne hättest. Die Diskussion kommt aber 2 Monate vor Release ein wenig spät.
    Natürlich hast du die Diskussion auch schon früher geführt. Und wie man am Spiel nachweislich sehen kann hat es wenig gebracht.
    Es wird sich nichts mehr ändern. Das weißt du genau so gut wie ich. Also: was soll das hier?
    Let it go dood. Just let it go.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  13. EtherBunny

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    Ok, so at the OP, I've noticed that you post a lot of "change this _______ feature" posts. Which, after looking over all of them, are pretty much the core of the game. No real hard caps (well, 200, but that'll take time), make them smaller and easier to obtain. Can skill/train anything you want, limit this too. Death decay added, make it worse. Followed by I don't have time to play, which means you would need to work more for the death decay you lost. Also, it sounds like you want this game to be like other games you listed, so why not go back to one of those? If you listed WoW above as an example to follow (hopefully I read into that wrong), that's terrible. I (like others) left WoW because it catered to children to much and held their hand way to often on everything.

    So, on to the topic part. I liked UO, and enjoyed the skill system it had and limited you to X amount of points which made you think about what you want to do. But, I don't feel that would work to well with SotA. As state earlier, we only have so many slots to use, and even if you have X number of GM skills, you can still only use that specific number of slots and then only 1 skill at a time at that. Also, for the people you'll "never catch up to", I'm not seeing the problem. They put in more time, they deserve to be ahead. That's like you starting a job and wanting your supervisors position because it's not fair, even though they've been there longer and worked for it.

    Oh, and I'm a casual player too, family, work nights and only get to play maybe 2 hours in a day, if I can play that day. I still managed to get most of the skills to 70-80, a few still in the 60s, and only adventure level 71. No GMS either, well, about to GM tame summon.

    Anyways, I'm just really not seeing your drawbacks to this game. Just play it, and if so many things upset you/turn you off to the game, move on. Simple as that.
     
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  14. Stundorn

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    Nobody has read and respectfully followed what i asked.
    Thanks folks.
    You are the amazing community!

    @Earl Atogrim von Draken steht auch da das ich das alles weiss, aber wenn sich genug Leute finden die das positiv und constructive diskutieren kann Chris nachdenken.
    Er macht auch 1 Monat for evtl. Release eine massive Änderung, aber ich glaube es ist wider halbgar.
    Viel Spaß beim nicht pvp. Warst du nicht der Templer vom Drakenhof und full PvP? Happy Grinding the Monkey Room.
     
  15. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Ich hab das PvP Thema aufgegeben. Ich sehe nicht, wie hier noch spaßiges PvP entstehen soll in absehbarer Zukunft.
    Das liegt aber meiner Meinung nach nicht am Skill Gap. Es liegt für mich primär daran, dass PvP hier nur daraus besteht, sich gegenseitig auf die Fresse zu packen bis einer liegt. Das hat mich schon zu UO Zeiten nur so mittelmäßig amüsiert ^^
    Den Skill Gap kann man für gewöhnlich mit Masse ziemlich gut überbrücken. EvE ist dafür auch ein schöner Beweis. Die Goons haben 100te von Noobs in t1 Schiffe gestopft und Bamd of Brothers schlicht und ergreifend überrannt. Das geht auch hier. Wir haben vllt 10 Spieler von der Sorte die dir Sorgen bereiten. Die SPielen auch mehr gegeneinander als zusammen. Hetz denen 10 Noobs auf den Hals und die verrecken genau so wie jeder andere.
    Trotzdem: Ich persönlich fokussiere mich nun auf Handel.

    Sicher, es ist immer Sinnvoll bestehende Systeme zu hinterfragen. Dein timing sucked halt ^^
    Ich hätte das nochmal so in 5-6 Monaten platziert. Aber das ist, zugegeben, subjektiv.
     
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  16. Stundorn

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    Das EvE Prinzip funkt hier nicht.
    Level 100 ca. wiped easy ne ganze Gruppe 70er. Habs erlebt.
    Whatever, imo würde es das Spiel bereichern, schwerer machen, Abhängigkeiten schaffen, auch im Handel, was den beleben würde.
    Hier ging es um MP und Abhängigkeiten der Spieler untereinander, nicht nur pvp und cap oder gap.
    Wie gesagt, wenn es genug gäbe die es anders haben wollen...
    Schau dir mal die Zahlen an oder was hängenbleibt.
    Das wird ne Bauchlandung und wovon wollen die Ep2 bezahlen?
    Ich spende nix mehr bevor Ep1 nicht ein komplett funktionierendes system hat, alles ausgereifte, spaßige Sandbox spielmechaniken und ner belebten Welt.
     
  17. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Das ist ja alles schön und gut und auch durchaus nachvollziehbar.
    Ich bin ja selbst mit Teilen des Spiels nicht zufrieden.
    Aber (und das vergisst man gerne schnell in seiner Wut) 54% der Spieler sind mit dem Game eben doch zufrieden. Das kann und darf man über seinen Zorn nicht vergessen.
    Wir vergessen auch gerne, dass das Game zwar 12 Mio USD eingesammelt hat...aber 12 Mio USD sind NICHTS.
    Das ist keine relevante Summe um ein Spiel zu produzieren. Wir werden uns an gewissen Stellen einfach damit abfinden müssen, dass es Zeit braucht, bis es besser wird.
     
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  18. Brass Knuckles

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    Love this additude! Even though you dont agree your willing to hear him out, bravo

    Chris added decay because we didnt have hard caps, its thier system to manage run a way leveling.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  19. Katu

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    You made some valid points there! That part of the skill system is "working" as of now ( from my point of view ). Its the magic stuff and all the innates, that you just have to level up to get buffs and heals up. Taking those to 80's is by no means anything but a task that I now just have to do.

    I try to simplify my view about this in fewest amount of words:

    "This is not an open classless skill mechanism, it's an illusion of one. In reality, to be able to get on the harder content ( not even talking about dragons or other bosses ), you just have to level up everything ( except other melee skills and maybe you can skip few magic trees )"

    See, there is no choice to be made really. If you wanna take on the hard content or pvp, you have to get all the innates, buffs ( attunements ) atleast to 80 and few selected main skills 100+. This classless system makes us all look the same. I understand that there are players with lots of freetime and ( as I used to be one ) I don't wanna take anything away from them, let them level up, but restrict the amount of active skills one can have or something.

    One fix could be this ( fix, means something is broken, thus this is just my view )
    Implement hard restrictions for magic trees that make oppising trees ( used at same time) ineffective. ( Having fire and water spells in use, would make them no use, but you could still level and make decks that support this). This would allow players to choose not to level water at all, because they intend to go fire route ( now they have to, to get the elemental and shield and attunements to support those ). Simple stuff, creates different kinds of characters and yet, you can still level everything. Selecting your magic, could be restricted by debuff of 5min-1h or something. This would make group playing more interesting, because there would be dedicated healers then and dps mages etc.


    Question for those, who really like this system:
    What do we do with second character slot?
    When Episode 5 comes and everyone is self sustained crafter, how is the player driven economy doing?
    Why would I buy second account?
     
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  20. StrangerDiamond

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    You could also add a warning on the OP that says we must have google translate ready in order to follow the thread :p
     
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