Issues, a few

Discussion in 'New Player Welcome' started by dcosper, Feb 21, 2018.

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  1. dcosper

    dcosper Avatar

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    I hear the release is set for next month ? i would like to strongly suggest that gets pushed back, you do not even have the basics set up right, and players hold grudges, just like in AO and a few other games i can recall, launching a game in a cash grab mode without even making sure new players can acclimatize to the game has long lasting effects, ok i said my piece here are the issues.

    Firstly, your economy is set up so that new players are forced to purchase gold from you or another player just to play the game, why do i say this ?

    No gear drops, well i maybe got 1, but am now at tier3 and still, no gear drops, so as a new player i am still wearing the same gear as when i was created, AND ! i have been farming the mess out of ore, cloth, wood, and still broke, i cant afford a house, or a lot, or a merchant to sell stuff on, i am a mage so trying to look for a merchant to buy the stuff i do have has a few problems, i have no strength, so i walk around everywhere at super slow snail speed, well, i have to carry the items on me i want to sell right ?

    So i find a player merchant that wants the items i have, but he wants 100, i only have 63, cant go farm anymore my pick is broke, why cant i just sell him the 63 ? boggles my mind, if i could i wouldn't suffer from these issues, i went out and played the game, learned how to farm the items, learned where to go (all with 0 help from the game on this subject), and now i cant sell my items.

    So, only recourse is to quit playing, or buy gold so i can afford cloth gear, and because there is no way for me to learn tailoring recipes without waiting an hour for the moongates (seriously, did you guys learn any lessons from UO 1 ?), then to go find each costs 250g, so, 4 hours of searching google to first find out where the tailor is, so much conflicting information, then a hour to wait on a very unpopular moongate system, to find out i can afford 2 patterns, and then will be completely broke again, have to wait for the oracle so i can buy the wax to craft with, this game is very VERY noob unfriendly.

    Your economy is already screwed 100 copper ore is an average of 5000 gold, you need to have at least a fair mastery of the game to be able to afford to interact with player merchants, your learning curve has such an extremely large arc, that it really forces people to spend real life money on gold just to be able to play the game.

    Also, games that focus on making travel as slow as possible only do so to cover up the fact they have no real content, i guess they figure, well he played for 5 hours today, we must be doing good, and 4 hours and 50 minutes were spent in traveling, so with that in mind, i understand slowing the player down when approaching NPC's, i think its not smart to do, but at least it has some logic behind it, because maybe you want to speak with them, but why slow me down for a cat ? or a sheep ? just to make the game take longer ?

    This game explains next to nothing about it's mechanics, seriously i have spent more time on google and youtube then i have playing the game, you do understand its only a set of tutorial quests, its not that hard to do, and your player will have a deeper understanding of the game, and can enjoy game play instead of searching through all the conflicting information about the game you find via google, how about updating your wiki, its wrong too.

    Currently you are new, and i am interested in seeing what you do with the game, so far very un-impressed, have seen unity games with better mechanics, but still interested, thats why you get my money right now, but myself, just like many other players today have a short fuse when it comes to people taking their money while making promises, eventually we are going to want to see you do something right, especially when doing a remake of UO, players for this game are very loyal, but you better not screw stuff up, they are very vocal as well.

    So maybe you guys need to push back release until you fix the basics that will allow new players to not become frustrated and ask for a refund in the first day, in the games current state its going to happen, you make it very difficult with lack of information.

    OK i will shut up now, i realize i will be ignored and the launch will go ahead as planned, but at least i tried.
     
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  2. dcosper

    dcosper Avatar

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    In addition the quests you do have are all out of whack the questline you get from starting the game just leads you to death over and over, no need to even attempt it until you are a veteran player, bad design.
     
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  3. Womby

    Womby Avatar

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    Hi @dcosper. I can't argue with the points that you make, but I can offer my assistance. I know a lot of teachable and reteachable recipes that I can pass on, and I would be happy to do so. I'm also happy to share what I know and accompany you in-game if you think that might help. PM me if you are interested.
     
  4. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Have you read the manual? (Not being an ass.) They don't make it easy to find, which is annoying. I don't know who to flag about this. (@Berek? Why is there not a link on the main page of the game's website to the most recent version of the instructions? I had to find them by using Google; the only time they are ever linked to are in update posts or on the forums.)

    Anyway. The manual actually does explain a ton of the game's mechanics, but it's tricksy to find.
     
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  5. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Oh, actually, I think if you click help icon in-game you can get to them as well.
     
  6. majoria70

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    Welcome to Shroud of the Avatar @dcosper and thank you so much for taking the time to give your feedback. It is really important to hear from players how their first experience is well and also to hear what suggestions they have. Well unfortunately or fortunately who knows the game will be released in March. This does not mean development stops or even slows down one tiny bit. This just means that the game is commercially launched and there will still be releases as usual to address feedback and get items from the jira list (task list) into the game like updating fishing and agriculture to name a couple. So we just continue to give our feedback as we go along as usual. Also I am Majoria in game if I can ever be of assistance. I do have the opportunity to offer rooms too to help anyone and it is my decision to not charge for these rooms. I do not have them for this purposes but to offer a place for players to hang their hat, places chests etc so they can get on with playing the game. *cheers*
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  7. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    They are linked each Wednesday (today) before the release on the main page. Should be posted this afternoon!

    And thank you @dscoper for the feedback. Please do keep checking out the game more and looking into the issues you've pulled out here. If you keep playing, you'll realize there are thousands of items in the game, countless combat and crafting options, and advancement options. It's quite extensive... you also don't need to spend anything in the game, so don't worry about that being a problem.

    The community here is fantastic in aiding new players in helping them out, so feel free to ping them as you see someone in-game! Hospitallers have a special tag they turn on to be identified. You can also reference sotawiki.net and other sites.

    Hope you have fun as the game advances!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  8. Weins201

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    @dcosper ty for your raw honesty, this is almost exactly what keeps coming up from new players. Most do find enjoyment but this is after find player who helps them out. Once players get a boost they are fine. But as stated just playing the game forces player to deal with ones already established, notice I say FORCED. If a new player actually tries and plays like he did it is near impossible. This does nothing but enforce all the concerns that "Casual" players keep harping on.
     
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  9. Vladamir Begemot

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    Hi @dcosper, thanks for coming to the forums! Sorry I didn't have much in game time yesterday so I couldn't come help. I see you found my post about no tailor in Aerie. I think that would have saved you a lot of hassle.

    Friend me in game, Vladamir Begemot. I'll teleport to you and buy your excess materials. I have a store in Outlander Help Center that also has buy orders, but sometimes they get filled to the point where you only find stacks of 100 available. I also have one in S Mart Factorium that does the same, it usually has a better buy setup.

    There is one in Veritas Sanctuary as well, right next to Blood River Outskirts. The last I saw it had stacks of 20 for some, but not as many. I'll teleport over there are make some buy orders as well, later today.

    You're spot on with your observations. The game really opens up and becomes huge once you get over the beginner hump, but that hump is a big one!

    Anyway, welcome to the forums, thanks for the feedback, and if you please, put more as you go along.
     
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  10. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Your post echoes a similar experience that a couple of my friends had when I tried to get them playing this - the game can be incredibly daunting starting out, particularly for a mage type character. One by one I've watched all the new players give up their magic and pick up a bow instead, since the amount of skill training/unlocking you need to be viable as a starting mage requires significantly more investment.

    Agree completely on the buy order quantity thing, and the recipe thing (that only gets worse, btw, as many of the recipes you need are drop only off of mobs you wont be able to kill until you're much bigger). Agree completely on your travel issues. Not sure why you're waiting on moongates, I don't think I've used one, ever - just walk to wherever you're going is faster and there are integrated maps now that make this easier.

    I disagree with your conclusion that you need to spend real life money.

    Not trying to be disrespectful here, but it seems most of your 'issues' could have been resolved by simply talking to other players. If you have resources you want to sell, there's plenty of us who will look at your pile and give you a fair price for whatever quantities. I'm one of them. If you need recipes, there's plenty of us who have no problem sitting there and teaching you all the teachable recipes to get you started. Yes, there's a learning curve, and the systems are intricate - I can't stress enough how much interacting with other players or joining a guild will mitigate this and answer a lot of your questions. If you're going to stick around and give the game a shot, come find me. We'll give you some hand-me-down gear with some strength on it so you can carry more stuff until you get bigger and be a bit sturdier on your feet, and help you decide on skills/build choices. If you want to gather materials as your method of income, we'll even give you a job and a tour around the mines so you can decide where you'd like to do this ;)
     
  11. dcosper

    dcosper Avatar

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    Yes the community is top notch, however in game i will just get random people sending me friend invites, without even saying hello, or you are cute, or I like shiny objects !!, nothing so was just removing the requests, i am normally a solo player because of my lifestyle and well, lets be honest general distrust of people, which i find to be more and more common nowadays, so if the game had explained to me that people will do that because they want to use you as a way to teleport around the world, well then, i would have accepted the requests, but a game that wants to charge 700+ real life dollars for a in game home, should at least ensure the playing experience is a bit more than satisfactory, as well as being something that will both keep old players interested while attracting new, and i just do not see this here.

    I love the idea of a UO remake, would be happy to support one, i am a old fart and was there for the first one, but this isnt it.

    Will i still play it ? yes because i am interested in seeing if the dev team wakes up or not, but i will be keeping a tight reign on my wallet, mainly because i feel it is destined to fail, i am a 50 year old fart and i am having these issues with the game i can just imagine trying to let your kid play,which would be a large market if you guys paid attention, what nerdy parent wouldn't want their kid to have the ultima online experience like they did growing up, those of you here that expressed an interest in reaching out to help, thankyou very much, i am currently playing with my brother as that is what we did 20 years ago, and until he chooses if he wants to make his own guild or not i am just waiting.

    My main reason for posting here is i feel there are many things that need addressed before launch, and no way they could even get half of them fixed by then, in addition i get really annoyed at a game that forces me to alt tab and search google because WTF ? seriously, i want to play the game, not study for a mid term exam, go through a new player tutorial, explain grouping, explain teleporting, explain how and why to raise your innate stats, explain the different template choices, simply saying warrior, mage, archer is so lazy, please put some more effort into this game.
    Also, if you are less than a month away from launch why do you still have the early access warning, why do tons of zones still give messages like npc's may not work.
     
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  12. Astor Cerberus

    Astor Cerberus Avatar

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    Hi and welcome @dcosper

    Re: quesltine progression - I agree that it's not obvious. Making the quests challenging was a design goal. You could argue about obscure vs. difficult, sometimes it's a goal not completely met. That said, I'm an experienced player and have built up my character to no longer have to worry too much about the problems you're facing. Feel free to watch us go through this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUv3GVUykVskQPUI6ul3gC8Pi8-qeHHM6 - we aim to be unbiased. We complain about things that annoy us too but you may find some nuggets here.

    Re: Gold earning ability - In the series above we chose to receive no 'free' gold or weapons, etc from alts. every. single. thing. was earned in game. it's possible but there's an element of learning how to maximize the economy. As a note we also did not sell anything to players. In fact, I kept all harvested resources for myself for later. If you choose to sell your resources you could do even better.

    Re: Housing - For better or worse, this is rare by design. It's either money to the devs for lot deeds (which I support because it keeps the game alive), or gold, to buy from players. There are however, also player in game that provide free accommodation in the form of rooms in an inn, or even a full home. You may need to either explore or search these forums but there is a lot on offer from this community.

    Ultimately - I'm not here to try to convince you that this is the right game for you - If you think it's a game that you could love, check out some of the advice, videos, etc. Hopefully it helps get you over the hurdle.

    Good luck and thank you for the candid feedback of your experience.

    Astor
     
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  13. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Just to remember: starting as mage actually gives the greatest disadvantage!
    Starting Path of Truth gives the disadvantage of
    - 35 Skill Points in comparison to the path of Courage ("Fighter")
    - 64 Skill Points in comparison to the path of Love ("Ranger")
    Need more --> facts? <-- Click here ;)
     
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  14. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Which is fine, until the next livestream update/contest update/telethon update, at which point the update with the instructions is no longer at the top of the page. My point was that you shouldn't have to dig through blog posts to find the instructions on the website. It should be on one of the tabs in the page header. "Oh, you can find it if you look around enough" is not a good answer for new players.

    I hate to harp on this, but it seems to be a consistent issue with Portalrium (especially in telethons) where questions from the community are half-answered or answered extremely dismissively.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  15. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer SOTA Developer

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  16. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Hm.

    Okay, well, I'll give it to you, but only halfway. That does not seem like the most obvious place to look. I'd probably also add a direct link to it on the tab that pops up when you mousover the "Community" tab. It's a pretty important document.
     
  17. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Avatar

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    i see you found issues selling, you had 63 of something and the buyer wanted 100s... then they were a player buyer.. they set what they are buying. NPC vendors takes 1s of everything.. bar stuff you steal admittedly often for a lot less than you'd like your shiney loot to go for.. but you can still make your way in the world.

    Dont forget the oracle will give you 500g a day if you go say Hi to her and take her test

    the game is steep learning curve and that drew many people to it because it wasnt mash keys get uber loots job done.

    I have a number of toons all wearing the basic stat armor you buy from the vendor or store (only adv of store bought armor is it it doesnt ever become completely unrepairable) no stats.. hasnt impeeded me. However, I also know Im not everyone. But I retried wow recently .. i beta'd wow in its day and it wasnt so bad, now, you can get to lvl 100 quickly without any buying of high lvl toons off bliz and you pretty much get a lvl each time you login for bothering to come back.. theres no skill in that.. I like having to learn my environment, work out what i can and cant manage to do, to have that "oooh crap run" or man up and die cos I got it wrong feeling.

    We were all new once and often new things are learnt even by the old. However, theres a host of people called hospitaliers who are willing to help. if you need help with stuff people on discord will help if they can too, some even drop what they are doing to help you.
     
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  18. Volkang

    Volkang Avatar

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    Yes, as noted start-up play is...a bit too inconvenient. It isn't as bad as it feels, of course, but still off the charts. I admit I started with some skills/equipment that didn't fit my style or even mesh with each other, and I completely forgot/overlooked a few that could have made a difference. So it's really only 90% as frustrating as it first seems.
     
  19. Vladamir Begemot

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    Lack of tailors and such aside, I've found the best thing we can do as players is to provide some key pieces of information. The early hump is tough, but can be gotten over with with some key information.

    • Push Enter to talk (if they are jumping up and down and not saying anything)
    • The Red Wagon is the Exit (if they are running all over like they are trapped)
    • The Oracle test
    • Eat food
    • That the three quest lines are meant to be played simultaneously
    • That they should jump over to the other Outskirts when finishing the first, so as not to be over powered
      • Sell Raw Materials to other players via buy orders or a PV
      • Current ballpark raw materials prices

    Then if they want to know more:
    • Info about learning skills/the xp pool
     
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  20. smack

    smack Avatar

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    I think this is great feedback, and I think it's great that the community wants to help out by giving him resources, housing, teaching him recipes, etc.

    But is the game so broken that it must rely on other players to start out? Again, not to knock the veteran players here, but there are some critical points made by the OP here in terms of the NUE and the first 20 levels of play. Without the aid of others, without 1-4+ years worth of experience playing 50+ Releases, the new player is going to have a very hard time, especially in regards to earning gold and XP.

    Sure, reading the player guide may ease some of this pain of knowing how to play the game, but it won't address the core concerns of the OP in terms of player progression.

    And how will this even be balanced for the offline game, where there are no other players?
     
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