The cause i quit SotA - Feedback

Some dont understand me about what i think a RPG Sandbox is.
Feeling at the Bank where lot of players just Bank.
Feeling of beeing unprotected and pk around, but be able to fight off and be able to beat the pk.
Because i'm casual, because i'm onlyplaying 2-3 hrs a day it doesnt mean i'm bad at PvP .
With caps or no vertical progression i'm same strong regarding the game.
I sank sloops and galleons solo in SoT Scale Test. I win battles against players who played 10 times more, but their toon isnt that much stronger.
One thing that lead to my decision was this picture Elrond posted.


I want a sandbox game. I want to roam with my buddies, i want to fight, a challenge , i want to loose all, i want to loot my corpse, i want to loot your corpse.

In Shroud that is not possible.
I said it Month before, this system favor powergaming too much and locks of casual gamer from content behind this huge wall of grind.
The Gap between players casual and powergamer is that wide that there is no sandbox possible.
I play LoA atm and you raise your skills fast, the cap of 600 is affordable to everybody , even caduals, to make a competetive toon it needs some days or weeks and you can fully partake in the sandbox.
And if someone ask me what to do then, because progression is done?!
Well, there is loss and restock, you make your living, you harvest ,craft and it feels more satisfying and rewarding.
They have Treasure Chests. Well Sea of Thieves have them too. There is a living sandbox. It lives without to have to organize an Event.
Let 5000 players join. The Gap , the zones, the pvp ruleset, the gear ... All that in SotA is not setup well for a living rpg sandbox.
At least what i understand from it.
SotA is great for immersive atmosphere ,emotes and (RM costy) housing.
That's all. And it's great for people who dont care for competition or think they shouldnt compete with people who put more effort in it. Effort in what? Grinding skillnumbers?
I beat a lot of them if i'm equal strong regarding gamemechanics.
I already won fights in SotA versus players couple of levels above me.
But the measures here are not what i can reach and i also dont want to be forced to grind that much and about diminishing returns, just see the picture above.
Sorry to me it's ridiculous.
The game this way setup is not for me .

I said Month and regarding other games years and decades ago,i dont need levels, I'd love a game / Sandbox where everybody is allways equal strong.
In games with caps and good balancing what is reachable for a normal player this takes some weeks/ Month and you are there, partake, distribute ...
In Sea of Thieves a dream comes true.
No vertical progression. Yeah !
People complain about it, they say nothing to play for .
Others answer ,play for fun, like some here say dont care for competituon and powergamers .
But i like to RPvP. It's the salt in the soul, the extra challenge, the thing i play online for, otherwise i play SP games and offline. I want to cooperate and to compete with others . In a Team versus another. With friends versus others .
Loosing ,winning , make a living ...
Not gonna happen in SotA setup like this.
You can dance together.
Cordelayne said they visited the Lost Vale.
But grouping in SotA isnt fun, isnt rewarding, the scenes arent made for this.

And about german community ...
Well not that much immersive roleplayers around and not possible to unite them.
The City that claims to be a RPG spot had accepted the last 10 players who stated that they are not interested in RP .
There was ugly arguing and to be honest there is no real project.
I tried with my small guild and Gladsheim supported me, but it's not what i imagine.
And thats also because gameplay is not group friendly.
Btw SotAmap Integration destroyed a Lotos immersion. You dont get lost anymore, you feel the borders of the scene more quick, because you arent loosing orientation.
You grind Round after Round, spawn after spawn hours and hours to reach nothing . Oh 200 Silver i have... Nothing.. .
Oh i gained 500k xp. Nothing .
Vertical progression at this level destroys living sandbox RPG because it creates a gap only powergamers benefit from and casuals are locked off.
They have to significantly measure down things and cap skills, otherwise not my game .
Then i hope they find enough players who like to progress and dance only.
Economy and pvp is for powergamers only and that is not neccessary and a misconception i think LB and DS believes is right and good, but imho it's not.
The game will survive and maybe to some degree successfull, i dont sell my assets and i maybe check out if things change.
But i found other games what are Sandboxes what i can fully play and compete , cooperate in and challenge myself .
The "challenge " SotA want me to do is grind to hell and exhaust.
And this is because of no caps and let people make the measures who play 16 hours a day and create an environment for addicted gamers what otherwise feel boredom.
Not my game.
I play for fun, not for levels. If games need vertical progression to satisfy players ,then it's something wrong.
They should play it because it's fun to play in the first line.
I like combat system in SotA ,but the fun i got from combat is not because i like to grind . It's because i like to fight , and not only mobs. Mobs become easy and boring , you just grind them because you need to ,because otherwise you are locked to fight others, mobs and players.
Playing a game is about fun , not work!

 

Can i ask why?

 

A lot of right things. I think however Portalarium realized they neglected the sandbox and we will see much more of this in the future. Like I said lets see what they implement after release.
They just announced big changes for PVP in the last telethon. Lets hope it is as big as they hinted.... There are lots of people that will give the game a second chance. After all a true sandbox can be entered any time... so why not wait and see. But you are right, with a game much closer to UO than this Shroud might lose it's only PULL factor soon

 

See the "diminishing returns" of around 30% damage between a skill of 100 to 140.
How many Million xp that is?
I dont care, too much is my answer.
Too much to create an even playing field to have a sandbox for everybody and not only those who play that much to reach this numbers .
And why i want to compete against people who are 60 levels above me ( 80 skill ) and need 5 times the XP to get to 100 and then still do 30% less damage.
Just no

 

@Stundorn
Wir waren uns zwar fast nie einig (wobei das so ja auch nicht stimmt ^^) aber ich finde es sehr bedauerlich, dass du uns verlässt.
Ich drücke dir wirklich die Daumen, dass du ein Game findest, das dir so zusagt wie du es immer beschrieben hast.
Vielleicht wirfst du mal einen Blick auf Ashes of Creation. Das könnte was für dich werden.
Für meine teilweise recht harten Worte dir gegenüber möchte ich mich an dieser Stelle auch entschuldigen. Denn eigentlich war deine Kritik oft produktiv.
Vllt schaust du nochmal in ein paar Monaten rein was aus SotA geworden ist. Evtl gibt es ja Entwicklungen, die dich von einem zweiten Versuch überzeugen können.
Wenn nicht, dann alles gute!

 

I wish they had a skill cap too. And they could increase the cap each episode. I think that some new players might think that they are just so far behind the earlierplayers, that they wouldn't even consider PvP.

Even myself, I am now averse to the idea of getting into PvP, because I feel I would be so far behind. I have intentionally not been playing the game much as I want to play it once it is officially released (ie: when it is a more clean/perfected game), but a downside to that is that now I probably won't enjoy PvP.

 

@Earl Atogrim von Draken
Alles sportlich ;-)

Ich hoffe tatsächlich noch, dass sie es ändern.
LoA lange gezögert und so, weil ich auch SotA , Gladsheim und die Gilde nicht aufgeben will/ wollte.
Gibt nix besseres für RP am Rande. Also mit der Pfeife im Ledersessel vorm Kamin und so, aber wo ist die Sandbox. Was kann ich erzählen, wenn ich verglichen immer unfassbar schwach bin und nix reißen kann. Ist mir einfach zuviel und was andere vorgeben ist unerreichbar für mich. Ich muss nicht King of the Hill sein. Wie ich es mal schrieb, fände es besser wenn "alle" auf nem niedrigeren Level kooperieren und gegeneinander streiten würden.
Werde definitiv Spaß mit Sea of Thieves haben und dann auch LoA spielen, denke das ist mehr was für mich.
Wir quatschten vorgestern zu 4. Im Discord , alles SotA Spieler und sagten SotA mit dem ruleset von LoA , das wärs.
Mehr UO halt.
Ich denke das es sogar mit den Szenen und den Modi möglich wäre SotA mehr UO like zu machen, aber "man" will es ja nicht. Zuviele die dann "nichts mehr zu tun haben". Ich habe echt gestaunt wie genau das Fehlen dieser vertikalem Progress Geschichte im Sea of Thieves Forum verteidigt und wie argumentiert wird. Und in LoA ist das Cap und sorgen andere Dinge für ein deutlich besseres balancing, soweit ich das jetzt schon beurteilen kann.

Ashes hab ich ein bisschen unter Beobachtung, aber ich bin vorsichtig mit KS geworden.
Ich möchte auch zu oder mach einem Release ohne zu krasse Nachteile einsteigen können.
Von daher mal abwarten wann etwas vorzeigbares kommt.

 

Hab die Beta mitgemacht. MEGA Game. Und wirklich witzig.
Aber natürlich schon sehr anders als SotA ^^
Und auch eine ganz andere Community. Wirklich ganz anders. Microsoft hat das mit dem Community building langsam wirklich drauf. Schau dir mal Mixer an. Da sind alle....so...so...NETT! ^^

LoA ist schon sehr wie UO. Ich denke das werde ich mir irgendwann auch mal ansehen. Aber so das glorifizierte old school UO isses auch einfach nicht mehr für mich.
Es war schon ein ziemliches slugfest damals ^^

 

Sorry to see you go and really hope it is not a goodbye forever.

To 2. Yes it has gotten quite calm regarding roleplay and events at least in the German speaking community I know but I would guess it is mostly a communication problem. If they do not know/remember that there is an event they will not come. For example I remember 2 or 3 events you created I couldn’t participate but reading your post I would guess since your relocation to Gladsheim you had tried to create quite some more events I never heard from or remember to have recognized. I know quite well that mostly you see just the same few avatars on local events and so I was really thankful that you carried some new avatars to my event in the last year even if we had to translate on short call the main contend into English.

To 4. I honestly hope that I’m never done with my progress and even if I know that there are already avatars currently at a point I might reach in 3 years I do not have a problem with that. I would say that I grind a lot if I play but I’m quite sure that I’m grinding ineffective or have a not optimal skill set but I honestly don’t care. I simply like the way I play and do not try to play like others.
And regarding caps…well with the open skill system and the way the skills level up it got unrealistic to have hard caps at e.g. 1000 skill points but I think the specialization is a push into the right direction even if I would still like to push it some more.

To 6. As other avatars progress normally is not interesting for me I can still understand the concerns you have regarding PvP…it is difficult to fight someone with the same gear and skills but higher levels as this gap can just be balanced by more competence on skill usage on your side but even this is not possible if the gap is too large. I currently see no reason why I should visit a PvP area more than once aside of a faster travel route like Blood Bay as I will most like be the one with the lower level and I do not need to fight others if I already expect that I can only lose.
Wasn't there a while ago same talking about auto adjusting the levels in PvP areas? Sounded like a possible solution if everyone is restricted to level X or everyone even shares the same skills in this zone by switching your current skill set and gear to the default skill set and gear of this area by entering the PvP scene.

 

Aaand there went my chance to improve my German for RP purposes. I can use Google Translate to get an idea of how a German would say Caska, you're an idiot! Why did you just run in when we weren't ready, train the whole zone to us and die so much that this other guy in our group GM'd resurrection just by saving you!? Then you turn around and shout while laughing 'Again!'
When we wipe from a dragon that you charged you swear that because our cause is righteous and just we will prevail this time! Then you claim that you got this new enchanted polearm from some Satyr you beat in as poker game, then you claim this same Satyr gave you a treasure map that reveals the location of some Satyr Deity's treasure. (To know how to tell someone from Grünstadt "I call!" Gambling is international, right?
Hmm maybe that's why you don't want to group. Everyone can't be as much of a pain in the butt as I am, give 'em a chance.
Sea of Thieves does look fun. I'd definitely give it a try if I had an XboxOneX

 

Sorry to see you go Stun - you have consistently fought for what you believe the game should be and the loss of a voice such as yours is a big shame.

I share many of your concerns and frustrations but at present still feel the game has much to offer me and I remain hopeful that things will change for the better over time (assuming the game proves successful enough to allow it to do so).

Enjoy your adventures elsewhere and keep at least one eye on how things develop here over the next few months.

 

Never seen someone who quit write so much

 

This is why a lot of people who have left this game tend to hang out on different forums and attack it (and the community) for long periods of time after they quit. These kind of comments are toxic. There is nothing wrong with a person leaving this game telling the dev's why. Why is that? Because the purpose of us actually playing this game in pre-release for the past several years is to test it for them and give us their opinions before release. Seems like a lot of people forget that.

 

1: Disagreeing is not necessarily the same as rejecting.
2: If you haven't grouped in a year with all the changes that have happened, then what position are in to comment on grouping?
3: #1 reason for low population is, and has always been pre-launch status. Lot of people waiting for launch, no active marketing etc. The game is designed for a MUCH larger population where very little effort has been made to populate it yet. Speculating on other reasons for low population prior to launch with an actual marketing campaign is like.. complaining about the lack of a German speaking community prior to launch (for much the same reasons).

Of course the population isn't up yet.. we haven't launched or made any serious effort to raise it before launch. Did you really expect any different from a pre-release status? Neither I nor anyone I can think of has ever said it would change prior to launch.

The time for facing "reality" is when it comes to fruition. I get people want what they want and it's frustrating but pre-release testing.. and that is what we're all supposed to be here for.. is not a game for the impatient. I admit I do not understand why so many people seem to want to rush to judgement prior to release.. even more so those who did so years ago..

Is the game perfect? Hell no. Tons of stuff I personally don't care for in terms of design and implementation. Is it improving? Hell yes it's improving. I think there are some things that in my opinion won't ever be fixed (mainly story elements) but I don't RP according to most of that anyway so I guess that's neither here nor there.

I suppose if I wanted to impress one major point at this stage is.. don't be in such a rush to judge things that aren't ready to be judged. The time for passing judgement will very shortly be upon us but there's little point until then. Unless you can see that game is plainly not for you.. but since you're still here and still playing you obviously haven't reached that conclusion yet.

Now, 6 months AFTER launch.. all bets are off. There will be no more "yeah but it's pre-release what do you expect?" or any of that.

 

Just to say, never been toxic against SotA , never posted on reddit or elsewhere and i grouped a lot the last month or weeks.
I just have no aims in the game anymore or lets say the aim to be competetive is not reachable to me. And they way to do it isn't fun and exhausting me.
Simple as that .

I wish for SotA success, i wish for changes and would come back for sure.
I won't sell my assets soon or overreactive, but i recently decided to quit until i have something read about SotA what is worth trying again.

Btw. 10 times costy as stat skills specialisation skills drive me off too, although i liked the direction of it.
But to have to grind xxx Millions to get it to 80 or 100 with the content we have.
Just no!

I want to be competetive, i want a sandbox RPG with PvP .
LoA i can try now and i recognize , yes there you can partake.
Even better is Sea of Thieves, what has absolutely no vertical progression and you can pve and pvp all day long .
And it's fun and challenging, the cause i play games, fun and challenge. I dont need progress achievements. They destroy balance and true sandbox feeling to me, because it divided players in pro and casual. Time spent shouldnt be key .
Practice and playerskill should always be factor No 1., and cooperation.
And my results pvping in several games show me, i'm no uber PvPer, but i'm also succesfull some times and i can have fun and do well, but i need this sort of "Fairness" what caps or no levels at all create and i dont want to fight against people who grinded to success. Spent time should allways be the last factor and only count for the practice and not in stronger gear and skills imho.
Therefore SotA is not the game i want to play, because spent tine grinding here is key and that is not the style of playing i like.
And i hope for all of you who are ok with this, that the game keeps interesting and will be successfull.
If i maybe one day decide to sell my assets i hope for a good price. I dont need everything back, but would be sad if it's nothing worth anymore. On the other side, i had my 1700 hours, so 1 buck per hour or something like that is ok to me
I dont need the money and maybe the game turns more into UO and the sandbox i would like.
Maybe some future content is fun to play, i then think i will give it a try again.
For now i'm not interested and playing anymore.
I never said thst btw. I just argued a lot .
And i take 6 weeks off to come to that decision now. And i anyway will maybe join launch day. But i do not Plan or organize something. It was allways me who organized events or groups or whatever.

Oh and i do this answers and write that much, because i want the devs to know and still wish for the right changes.

But enough for now. Thanks all who made kind comments, i appreciate that.

To all others, dont care that much, sometimes it's better to say nothing ;-)

Have Fun - Stun o7

 

I agree with Stundorn 100%, even from a completely different perspective.

Unlike him, I decided to grind as much as I could (to 91), following the idiom, 'if you can't beat them, join them.' hoping that one day i'd be on a level pvp playing field. in UO once you got to 5x you were fit, and you knew for a fact that every time you won or lost, it was based upon your wit and reflexes. For a player like me, or Stundorn, that is the point at which the fun from a game begins.

A good game can craft content which is engineered to be rewarding and challenging for a player at that specific level of ability.

instead of a tailored suit, here we have a one-size-fits all snuggie. The only goal is to gluttonously fill out your snuggie as much as possible.

 

@Budner @Stundorn come on mate - you've seen this a lot : players rage quit and post eloquently, hoping that some dev will hear/read the complaint and make improvements.... Does it work?

edited for just being a jerk. oh, and I realized i probably shouldn't challenge anyone at a game they designed.

I probably need more therapy.

THE HENDOMAN

 

I agree 100% to what you say.

It's a grindy game.
The most common counter argument is "you create the grind yourself, game does not force you to it", yeah, but then the game is over after what, 40h max? If you take the grind path, its a long one. For example, have few friends playing together, challenge your party to level up to kill dragon or the troll, how many hours do you have to put in? I know for fact, that few hundred hours is no way near, at my current playing style ( and I consider it quite efficient ), it takes atleast another 200h of pure grind.

Dollars give you power.
Don't have that much time to play? You are then like most of us. Few hours MAX in late nights? Just drop in the cash and you get gold, xp, armors, house, decoration etc.
Have time to play? Grind to get everything while playing, but it-takes-time and while you grind, someone is already slaying the dragons, because he payd for everything.

It's mostly sad, the game is great almost on every other aspect, but this is the core. I like specializations, but more, way more is needed.

So, I do get what you are saying and I'm here, waiting for the launch and the month or two after that, If things change great, if not, well, I have got more than enough entertainment for my money. 400h for sum 70€? is great, so can't complain on that aspect.

TL;DR
I like the game, hate grind and p2w. As an entertainment, this game has given more than I could ask.

Farewell and hopefully the game can pull you back in some other day

 

Well Budner have you ever seen this?

 

I valued your feedback and believe you were a good addition to our community. I hope you come back someday!

As for anyone else reading, given #2), the solution is to create your own community. How hard does one really try? How much time does one give it? Im a dedicated RP'er, and I have never once been propositioned by the OP or anyone else (in-game) to RP with them. I doubt I am an outlier . I bet there are lots of folks willing to join RP communities in game, you just have to give it time and patience and let the community form at its own pace. I speak from experience. Auch spreche ich Deutsch .