User Expanded Support to Travian

If this is not a last minute process, why is everything still 'in general? Many of the questions we have raised simply have not been answered, a lot of irrelevant things have been put in the other thread but there is virtually no hard, useful information there - or anywhere else...

 

@Cerus

Q: Am I in risk of not being able to use the store in case of IP discrepancies?
A: In general, everyone should be able to access the store and purchase items or services. If, for reasons of IP discrepancies, you experience issues with that, please contact the support team and you will be assisted with that.

This is a wishy washy answer to an important question. If I migrate to Travian and travel to the US, will I be able to access my account and purchase items in the US store from there, yes or no? Is this an "IP discrepancy" that you expect will lead to non-access to one's account or to the add-on store?
You must know the answer to this question. Man up and give a straight answer, please.

 

Ok so it's not rushed and you did plan. So why no details? You guys must know your regional COTO pricing by now. (I appreciate its a point of contention as your bound to annoy someone unless it exactly like for like, which I doubt that will be easy to do.

You must have more details than "store credit will be changed into COTO's on migration" At what rate? Will bulk purchase incentives be respected?

You must have discussed how to deal with the fact we bought store credit to use in postmortem sales. If I wanted COTO's I would have bought COTO's in the first place. Instead I feel I've been railroaded into getting them.

 

such news on release day, sad.
http://www.pcgames.de/Shroud-of-the...ws/release-portalarium-mmorpg-kritik-1253256/

 

Congratulations,
instead of the great news that Shroud of the Avatar has been officially released,
the European press is just reporting more bad news about angry players.

 

Greetings again @Cerus

Please note that none of this from me is directed at you personally, I'm just kind of a besserwisser and want information to be correct or corrected. I do this all the time to DarkStarr and Berek, although I have more luck with getting changes out of the former than the latter.

Again this is why vetting with a select player group would have solved most of the backlash you are recieving. Also most of this isn't good to be hashed out in the public since it feeds the fear factor.




With that said let's start from the most recent and work ourselves backwards.

That 'nothing' bit is incorrect.

Emotes, game access, some bundle items, shipping etc etc are all lost on claim.

Lets start with the case of Emotes. Kickstarter pledgers got the Darkstarr emote, there has also been a couple of emotes expiring from the store. Those are considered rare and a thing for the collector/RMT crowd. Some of those are tied to buying items like the Stretch Boat Package, the ballet tutu thingie etc. When they get "transfered to ingame bank" they lose their value since the emote is claimed for the account.
Also if you have more than one of those then any duplicates are truly "lost".

Lets take me as an example as that is easiest, going through my stuff I found some emotes, 2xDarkstarr and 2xJuggle Skulls, I already got those on my account. So when you "transfer to your ingame bank" they would be truly "lost".

Same thing with Game Access, any duplicates are lost. You can't have double access to the game from same account. So users have been buying Bundles when on sales and put them as Gifts. If you "transfer to your ingame bank" then all the perks which are account bound are "lost" - like Game Access.
(My old suggested remedy for that one would be to either get Access keys, or get it converted to extra char slots or something like that.)


That means that due to the short notice there will be users where due to the migration they will end up with stuff "lost" when those are transferred to bank.
For the BS migration that is already a fact.

The issue with that is that when users started discussing using VPN etc to bypass the russian BS migration, specifically the Ukraine/Baltic who can't use their site/store even if they wanted to, then Chaox clarified that although they wouldn't want to do that such behavior could still be considered bannable offenses. Hence why they told the US military person that in that specific case they wouldn't consider it a bannable offence.
Which means that there is a big potential for false positives that will be a mess of its own.

I don't get that one. "Transfered likewise" would gramatically refer to that likewise, but the only reference to "transfer" is the "transfer to your ingame bank" which doesn't make any sense when it comes to Service Vouchers.
So do you mean that Portalarium Service Vouchers will be converted to Travian Service Vouchers? Or something else?

Please add at which rate they will be converted and whether or not the conversion will scale like it does in the store.

For instance, again due to the short notice you will have users that this will happen to. Some of those will have a few credits and some of those will have a lot of credits.
If those credits were used to purchase in the store then it would scale so that those with lots of credits would get a discount.

A) that would have been nice info for the first announcement - please edit the first one with that info
B) the next postmortem has not yet been officially announced in the proper locations, which means that the users don't have that piece of info on when the next one is
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=35475
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=29385
C) in Portalairum terminology the livestreams are the ones on fridays with Berek that doesn't include discount/sales/spins etc. While the Postmortems does.
So do you mean that it is after the next livestream or do you mean it is after the next postmortem?
D) If you are saying that the postmortem is the 5th and the migration is the 5th then could I advice that you move the migration to the day after the postmortem? This since historically one could still add ones contribution after the livestream but before the end of the day.
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=82745
"
STRETCH GOALS (Darkstarr Themed!)
As a special bonus, we are offering funding rewards to any backer that pledges a minimum of $5 for twelve hours during the day of the telethon, on March 2 from 12:00 PM to 11:59 PM CT (Spending Store Credit to make $5 minimum purchase does not apply) .
NOTE: While the livestream ends at 7pm CT, everyone will have until 11:59 PM CT to spend $5 to get the stretch goals.
"

Could you please add a sentance about migrated Accounts on this one?
Will we be able to sell Accounts across Zone borders?
This since the quoted statement seems to contradict this quote:

Could you please add a line about which support you are referring to there. As in should one contact the local support that the account is currently in, or should one contact local support the account is going to be in, or should it always be Portalarium.

Hehe, click me I'm a link, the UK is its own mess.

That statement is kinda not true depending on which "we" you mean if one reads your link and checks the point 5 on suitability. Although yes I agree that is a technicallity etc, but still...

Tried to log in with an alt account, didn't work. Most likely due to the space in the name.





Ok with that covered.

These are the things from my post here:
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...igration-to-travian.114696/page-4#post-972347
that remains unanswered by the FAQ.

• If one pledged as a Founder / Royal Founder to sufficient tier. How do one access ones Blade of the Avatar digital novel?
• Same as above for custom head. (Pledge reward)
• If ones account has been migrated and one sell ones account to someone living in the USA who is using a US internet provider etc. Will the new owner be locked to the migrated store?
• Will we even be allowed to sell accounts across zones/regions?
• When the Raffle starts again, it used to be that we could check the Special Rewards page to see prizes, how will that work now?
  
• If one is in a non-US zone/region are we still allowed access to QA testing, and would we if so qualify for the QA lottery?

Finally, you might want to move your Q&A from here into the FAQ.

 

I guess we're not going to get clarification on the actual business decision and what the driver was. Probably just have to suck it up chaps. That's business.

I wouldn't try and explore IP country changes in order to bypass VAT rules @Cerus Your account will initially be bound to a publisher based on IP and any address provided automatically via payments...etc. You would have to raise a support ticket to change your region should you permanently move residence to another country and are then bound by their taxation and laws.

I was trying to come up with a foolproof methodology for buying on the US store which conforms to both legal requirements AND stays within the EULA of all services you consume.
Sadly whatever approach you try, it falls slightly short. Mostly because of Steam's washy EULA.

As I mentioned before. Theoretically, you should be paying VAT if you purchase online goods from Port OR a registered company in the US if you reside in the EU. However its a real legal grey area and there aren't any instances I can see of this being enforced. That's why for many years we've purchased directly from Port in US dollars directly without VAT being taken. It simply cant really be enforced - physical goods are not passing customs control on physical country borders. I could be mistaken and Port could have been paying VAT to EU user's nations (thus making a loss on sales, but I doubt this - much paperwork and accountancy for a small startup).
Private sales between US and EU residents for virtual items and services is legal without VAT/import duty being applied in a few circumstances (eg. Sending a paypal monetary 'gift' to someone in the US and receive a physical/virtual 'gift' back but the monetary value is very low threshold for this to apply - 36 pounds in the UK). Outside of this, import duty/VAT should still be theoretically applied, but again, is unenforceable in reality for virtual goods.

For this reason alone, no company is going to give you advise either way. It's simply too grey to comment on.

I was wondering if the following would work both legally and within EULA....
Based on the fact that if you read the Port EULA carefully (https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=47863) there is no mention of breaching it via using VPN to consume services.

If you absolutely must purchase your COTOs in US dollar rates I was thinking you could apply a simple methodology to potentially achieve it. With a small initial outlay of a few dollars:

1) VPN via one of your company's US VPN endpoints if you're lucky enough to have access to one, or an 'unknown' US VPN endpoint. (some services maintain lists of known VPN ip ranges)
2) Register a US gmail account (while on VPN)
3) Create US steam account (while on VPN) using US gmail account.
4) Buy a cheap US/international SoTA key from a crappy service like G2A (making sure you pay VAT for legal reasons! - there is an option. These are classed as private sales)
5) Redeem SoTA game using code in US steam account. Create SoTA account with US steam/gmail account. Login once to SoTA from the US VPN breakout (only ever log into this account while on VPN). Steam wont be able to tell that you paid for the code in the EU and paid VAT on it.
6) Buy stuff in SoTA USD store using this account. You may need a prepaid international credit card should geolocation checks be applied on payment method (CC, Paypal address..etc). However I doubt these controls are in place but this could be where the plan falls down.
7) Send goodies to normal EU account Char.

This should work just fine but falls short at the Steam terms of service (TOS) here:
"You agree that you will not use IP proxying or other methods to disguise the place of your residence, whether to circumvent geographical restrictions on game content, to purchase at pricing not applicable to your geography, or for any other purpose. If you do this, Valve may terminate your access to your Account."

Because you have purchased a SoTA steam game account with VAT applied already, you are not entering a legal grey area yourself by buying the game in USD on Steam itself. However you may still be breaching Steam's EULA and could potentially be banned from Steam itself, although this will not be a legal issue. You would enter this grey area if you purchased a game directly on Steam in USD, avoiding VAT and this is why Steam prohibit it in the TOS. I cant see how this could possibly be enforced/detected though unless you made a payment directly to steam with an EU payment method.



My personal view, in short - Although many of you will be annoyed - I've come to the conclusion that you should suck the changes up and pay VAT on your virtual items. Any workarounds are legally grey outside of minor private 'gift' transactions between EU and US residents.

Support your country. Pay VAT. It helps pay for all the national services you consume and enjoy living in your nations. Social welfare, health, education, infrastructure. Your country wouldn't be the same without people paying it.


- Fazza

 

In my case(I'm from Ukraine) I should pay VAT for Russia?
In addition, my bank takes a double payment for the conversion of my currency into rubles, as our countries are not friendly. Government decision.

 

Okay, so I can Paypal cash to a friend in the US to buy my COTOs and then hand over to me in game?

Utterly stupid to have an in game economy with prices differing depending on where you live.

As long as I have COTOs the rest can fester as far as I am concerned. The imbalance on cost for COTOs is the big issue for me, as every serious player needs to have those. It's the RL currency to play this game well and we should not have to pay more than other players for parity.

Perhaps the Travian prices will make this unnecessary - I can hope!


Welcome to Shroud of the Avatar, Episode One: The Forsaken Europeans!

 

I've had a look. Seems this is pretty common for the exact reasons outlined. It's the change that stings obviously, but people don't know/care if its been implemented from the start.

Taken from a forum:
"A World of Warcraft token in US can be bought for $20. This token can be bought off the AH by another player and converted in a $15 balance on their Blizzard account.
In the UK the token costs £15 and can be converted into a £10 balance."

I guess it doesn't matter if people are on different game servers, but players playing on the same one is different.

However, you're now going into in-depth economics of a country. The value of a dollar to you will vary massively to the dollar value of another person from another nation.
The dollar could be cheaper or more expensive to you than a US citizen. Your earning and spending power is different within your nation.

Its very hard to justify an argument like that.

 

from what i saw, prices for europeans will go higher from 17 to 27 % (just for the VAT) and then Travian needs make some cash so prices will go higher. Thats at least the impression it gives.

 

The better way to fix these would be to turn those into claimable, just like they have with most of the later emotes. Rather than claiming at the bank auto-learning the emotes, you get a bundle to use and learn the emote. If this was for all pledge rewards, they would retain their value even if the package is broken up.

 

I have them not claimed because i want them as gift for someone else or do later change it to Store Credit to buy other things, so an auto-claim removes those options for me

@Cerus so another Question:
What happens to gifts i received per Mail? at Portalarium I was able to activate them for my account and was able to regift them or change into Store Credit or claim them ingame, what will now happen when i open them?

@Spoon to be on the safe side i gifted all to myself and have the mails in my inbox to be sure they get not claimed ingame (as far as it can be applied)

 

Fully agreed. Everything should be delivered as "bags" which upon unpacking would become the item, or add the emote, or add the bank slot, or add the magic mover etc.

That would have solved soooooooo many bugs and issues.

The way I read it that won't work though.
Instead anything in your Gift tab will be "transfered to your ingame bank".

This is infered since there will be no "Gift" tab in the Travian website.

 

as long as you don't activate the gift-mail it should stay not active on that account

@Cerus QUESTION:
Could you please add the Info regarding pending gifts? Will they be claimed or not ? When claimed to which account? to the gifters account or to the one it was sent (e-Mail address)

 

Hey, negative publicity... Who could have expected THAT on release day? It's a good thing we didn't have a lot of negative publicity before, or this might be a PR nightmare...

OH WAIT!...

 

This would be an acceptable workaround, for that bit, at least!

 

Reading through this thread is so depressing, I’m honestly upset that launch week has turned into the biggest disappointment of the whole journey. Been with the game since the Kickstarter and been looking forward to this launch for months and I’ve not even logged in this week nor do I want to.

You have no one to blame but yourselves Port, poor poor show.

 

You folk who have invested thousands of pounds and euro's must be feeling pretty p***ed off. The company you supported through everything throw this in a day before release. Just really really poor Portalarium.

 

One thing I will say, Port need someone to get a grip of their PR/comms. Big own goal on launch week.

As a 25 year professional in PR and graphics, I am available, but they can't afford the COTOs, with or without VAT