Hooked - against my expectations

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JPNotADragon, Apr 1, 2018.

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  1. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Awesome to hear @JPNotADragon! We've got monthly releases coming up, so much more to tweak, polish, and add for new content.

    Meanwhile... are you sure you are not a dragon? :)
     
  2. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

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    Bingo!

    Ive been telling this to people for years. Im amazed that people dont understand how hard core this is. This is why when you play WoW, while the graphics of a zone are pretty, they are static and actually really simple. Same thing goes for any multi-player game like even COD. COD can barely have 16 people playing in an area at one time and its maps are largely static (local to your client).

    People dont realize how hard core it is to walk into a PoT like Serenite with 50 people living in it, 50 lots full of hundreds of thousands of various placibles. Your PC has to load all this stuff up all the time which is why there's such a video perf hit in the game, especially in big zones with lots of housing.

    So in fact, while SOTA's graphics may look "dated", in fact they are some of the most advanced in any game made today period...
     
  3. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

    Lord Tachys al`Fahn Avatar

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    Some things to consider that amplify what is said here:

    In terms of releases, it has only been 4 years (almost to the day) since they had a full game loop for the first time. At that release (number 4), they barely had a handful of scenes, and we didn't even know what the Novian mainland would look like, much less the number of additional scenes that would be added to the game.

    Since then, they developed a dozen or so templates, from which they added several dozen scenes throughout the world. And while I had quickly tired of the WoW hostile npc template of the same handful of enemies just resized, recolored, and buffed in terms of stats to make "new" enemies to face, I had hoped that both the world and the enemies would receive a "reboot". It had been really been getting old running into a scene, and finding bears, spiders, wolves, and undead in damn near every single one. Then I had a while where I couldn't play for technical reasons, and was finally able to come back, I logged in... and reboot they did! Over the past year, more or less, they have been hard at work uncloning those scenes, adding things to them and reshaping them so that not only do they not all have the same layout and enemies to face, but they have added individuality to the scenes, and variety to the things that populate them. I mean, I fought mushrooms the other day... mushrooms!

    On top of that, they have gone through (if my memory serves correctly) 2 major upgrades to their core unity engine (this release included), something that could not have been an easy or enviable feat, especially when one of those happened just before actually releasing the game!

    Along the way, not only have they created, populated, uncloned, refined and polished these dozens and dozens of scenes, but they have SIGNIFICANTLY improved load times on top of all that.

    I may have had, and if I'm honest still have, my pessimistic moments, but the last few releases have helped belay some of that, and let me try to look towards the future and see more than darkness!
     
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  4. Feeyo

    Feeyo Avatar

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    Do you know how much work it is to create a game in general? I am sure you are not aware of this.
    5 years is nothing. Yes with current technologies/game engines its a lot faster as 10 years ago. But still an mmo/rpg has so many work on content, graphics, audio, scripting, story and so many more things.
    They are offering content updates every month. You will be alright, play SotA, if your bored play something else and come back to SotA when you are bored of that other game. :)
     
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  5. Feeyo

    Feeyo Avatar

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    Indeed! This I do not understand at all! The graphics are not outdated at all. I think they are a lot better then a lot other mmo's out there.
    The graphics of SotA feel solid, they have real depth. The scenes feel alive, nice weather effects. Of course some things need work like A.I of the mobs but that is just adding some more scripting to them.
     
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  6. JPNotADragon

    JPNotADragon Avatar

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    Thank you!

    Alas! Ever' morn I fill my lungs with hope, but forsooth! No flames will come forth, not even a wisp of smoke...
     
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  7. gurugeorge

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    I gave this game several goes in early access and while on the whole I find it irritatingly ugly and clunky in many ways, I get what you mean by it still being absorbing. I find myself entranced by it for a while now and then - but then again, that's probably mainly because the game doesn't hand-hold, and I'm still learning and there's a lot to learn. I wonder how much the game will hold me once I'm in the saddle?

    What this reminds me of more than anything else is Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. That suffered from similar performance problems and general overall clunkiness and rickety, unfinished feeling, but at the same time it had its own quite powerful charm.

    I guess it's quite a feat that the team have done as much as they've done, but the game just seems really amateurish in terms of art design, presentation and useability, with the combat being almost completely devoid of any visceral feeling of impact and action. Audio is also fairly low quality - the soundtrack, while pleasant enough in terms of tunes, has that feel of it being all made with sampled orchestra etc., and the sound fx are wispy and vague, and again, without much sense of impact.
     
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  8. JPNotADragon

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    There is another thread going on about how deep and tactical the combat mechanics become if you make the effort to learn about them. I haven't even begun to do that :)
    Overall, the volume of the sound effects seems much too low, and I suspect the game isn't using any sound propagation model. I'm trying to find out more (sent a question to @Bread Vendor).
     
  9. Andrew Silverston

    Andrew Silverston Avatar

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    Hi, JP! Sorry, I took a liberty to hack your post up a bit because I agree with many things you said, and I too am playing offline version right and don't really care getting back to online, at least for a bit. I got hooked on offline, but I wonder how long that will last. My biggest gripe right now with offline version - I keep running into issues, where the time I spent exploring is very insignificantly rewarded. A lot of areas are simply EMPTY, or the effort-reward ratio is so bad, it cringes me inside...

    Like the other day, it was fun to resolve the puzzle with three locks. I found a bandit ruin that had a closed grate door and three locks on the wall. FUN - thought I to myself, MYSTERY, and TREASURE.. Wow, this is going to be good! I ran around the area for about 2 hours, killing bandits, until I figured out that I needed three different keys, eventually found all three and opened the gate, YAY CHEST, FINALLY! When I opened the chest I WANTED TO CRY. It felt as if someone already took everything worth taking and left me a few jewel scraps and coin enough to buy - NOTHING. I can't even buy new boots!

    Now, Portalarium, OK, I am a reasonable man, I understand that in online version, you need to limit gameplay elements to promote the cash store sales, since that is your bread and butter. I perfectly understand that. But the offline game, couldn't you at least spruce up the loot tables? Since there is nothing else to do in offline mode but explore, grind and quest - make exploring meaningful! Grind is grind, whatever, you can't change that and you can't change quests, they are what they are, there is no budget, no people, whatever. Just adjust the loot tables for offline version, add some chests here in there in corners of the areas, 1-2 signature mobs, with some lower level enchanted weapons. Just fill the offline game with the result of game mechanics that otherwise rule the economy in an online version.

    Or let me do it myself (modding), so I can at least make MY offline experience meaningful for myself... *sigh*
     
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  10. JPNotADragon

    JPNotADragon Avatar

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    To be honest, I wish some of those areas were significantly more empty. The rate at which the vigilantes respawn around Drumplemouth's camp is cringeworthy...
    My heart goes out to you ! 'tis indeed sad when a worthy adventurer must go to battle with unshod feet ;-)
    I hear you. IMHO, the one thing this game needs most urgently right now are better ways to report back to Portalarium. The web form is way too cumbersome: there must be ways to report things quickly and easily, without leaving the game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  11. rpgmaniac82

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    I hear you. IMHO, the one thing this game needs most urgently right now are better ways to report back to Portalarium. The web form is way too cumbersome: there must be ways to report things quickly and easily, without leaving the game.[/QUOTE]

    They said they are going to implement discord into the game at some point.
     
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  12. Andrew Silverston

    Andrew Silverston Avatar

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    Respawn? Are you talking about OFFLINE game? Or Party/Friend multiplayer? I was referring to the offline game. Unless this is a special area (I didn't go to Drumplemouth yet) Mobs don't respawn in the Offline game. You kill them all in the area and they don't respawn until you exit and re-enter the area. Am I missing something?
     
  13. JPNotADragon

    JPNotADragon Avatar

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    Yes, offline game. I'm forgetting the name of the location right now, but it's the place where you have three encampments: elves, vigilantes, and guards. The vigilantes are led by Phineas Drumplemouth (the son). You do a fair bit of back-and-forth in that task, and dozens of vigilantes pop up (not in mobs) everytime you jog between A, B and C...
     
  14. Andrew Silverston

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    Ahh that area... I gave up on them! But you're right, they do respawn, I forgot about those. Maybe I should return and try to complete, by I seem to be stuck, one side wants scalps another side wants brief documents. I killed all the guards in the vigilante camp, and still can't locate the brief documents, the Drumple-guy isn't budging either.

    Ahh, I just read that this quest is bugged in offline, due to drop issues... Not all quest items drop. Hrmmm.
     
  15. Andrew Silverston

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    Finally finished that quest, had to run around some more. This game gives so little quest exp. When you get to adv level 20-30+, quest exp becomes laughable, considering how much exp you need for skills. They need to adjust this for offline game, while anyone is still playing... In fact, I am really surprised how badly offline part was delivered. They just cut off the network and gave us the same online version except offline and changed nothing... *sigh* I wish RG cared about his game more. If they can't take care of it, should have given us the modding tools and we would have made it great. This game Offline has a good potential, but only if they release modding tools.
     
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  16. JPNotADragon

    JPNotADragon Avatar

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    I for one would argue that it's in the game's best interest that the offline game be closely tied to the online one.

    But I do feel the urge to help polish it. IMO every scene in the game (not just the player-owned towns) should be assigned a caretaker chosen from the community.

    For example, I'm currently in Jaanaford and find myself less than motivated to continue because that scene has bad performance problems.
     
  17. Drexorn

    Drexorn Avatar

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    I agree with almost everything that has been said here. I find it a very lonely experience online right now. A lot of the towns/scenes are kind of empty. I started on the path around highvale (truth maybe?). That scene was great - a little buggy, but overall the quests with the mirrors and the storyline grabbed me. After I completed everything there the quest/reward system isn't great, especially for new gear. I haven't been able to find anything better other than crafted stuff, but I only have about 2000 gold, so i can't afford anything. I'm trying to craft myself but it's so slow & expensive to do. I've just been doing the devotional shrine & grand tour quests, lots of walking around for seemingly no purpose.

    I tried to jump into a random scene and found the lucky leather questline - but then it got bugged after i turned it all in.

    I have full plate armor (the most basic kind you can buy at the start) and a warhammer & shield. I cannot kill anything above tier2 - and even then the orange enemies take me down pretty quickly. I think i'm leveling my skills ok - bludgeon at 77, others below that tree in the 40s&50s. I probably have to learn a lot more about the combat system though.

    Overall, it's been a frustrating & lonely experience. I rarely see anyone else on the road, and 1/3 of the quests bug out on me. I don't know what (or even if) there is a 'max' adventure level or skill level - but so far i can handle myself in tier1 areas, and get killed in tier2 frequently if I stay and fight.

    All that said, i'm giving the game a chance and I like how you have to explore on your own. I just wish it wasn't as buggy and I didn't have to keep all the graphics on the lowest level.
     
  18. Andrew Silverston

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    Yes, I am right there with you for them to be closely tied as far as content goes, but there are very significant things that make any offline game different from the MOG. Offline game is currently not balanced for a single player enjoyment - drop rates, loot tables, gathering yields, crafting requirements, all these things are very limited right now. It makes sense to have it so online, to keep some economy barebones going in the online community which creates have some for crafting equipment. but when you get to the offline game, they need to make it less tedious. They are already increasing some drop rates for artifacts and rare crafting mats in R53, but that's not enough to make the offline game really going.

    As another example - the loot tables in the online game are very poor right now to prevent high adv levels from farming and getting rich beyond belief. There is no such limitation needed in offline game, since every new player will expect some kind of a 'reward' feeling. If mobs drop the same coin/loot in tier 5 areas as they drop in tier 1 areas, for offline game makes very little sense. Same with chests. There should be a gradual increase in reward v effort. If you play offline game for 1 day, it makes sense that a mob drops 10gc and some rusty sword. If you get to tier 5 areas, it would make no sense whatsoever from the offline game perspective.
     
  19. Andrew Silverston

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    Hi Drexorn, Your first paragraph is a result of conversion from the online game to the offline game. They have to improve the reward system in quests as well as drops and chests. Offline game supposed to promote 3 separate types of a gamer - adventurer, explorer, crafter. If you like to spend most of your time adventuring, you supposed to be appropriately rewarded from quests (that currently only give you considerable very low EXP and even lower coin reward), and monster loots. Explorers supposed to be able to be rewarded appropriately for exploring all the areas nooks and crannies, means hidden chests, good quest and puzzle rewards etc. Crafters supposed to be able to craft some decent gear based on their adv level area gathered resources.

    At this point, everything in offline is very unbalanced and is based on the fear of high level players and people with no life having everything, which makes little sense, since there are neither of them in the offline game. Everyone starts from scratch and there is no competition. Some people may argue, but I don't see how scarcity in everything will promote the desire to stick around and enjoy the game... enjoy what?

    As far as your success in killing mobs... SOTA has a pretty complex system, but it's pretty simple, if you have experience. If they ever increase EXP in offline game, it will be a bit easier. You will need about 2 million exp spent into skills from the multiple trees to be successful. Go through all the trees and work on opening the skills that based on your playstile increase appropriate stats. For a ranger - you want dexterity based skills/abilities, and damage increasing stances. Look in strategy tree, all stances are there. Then you will to unlock both innate skills that improve your critical ratings, one was in Bow tree another was somewhere else.

    Almost everyone online play either mage or a bow, and as many people I've seen, most prefer a bow. It allows you to keep the enemy at range and deal bunch of dmg, as well as deal with annoying archers and enemy mages, since they keep running away. if you want rather melee you want to level all the skills that give you defense - shield, earth(gives STR) and a few stun skills that would allow you to root down archers and mages while you whopping them down - Shield is the best for melee, it gives some stuns and Heavy armor of course, gives a good stun also. It's identical in offline, same system.

    Also focus on a few skills at a time and read about how to maintain the exp pool. Also make sure you power up your skills and don't use dynamic decks, you won't be able to power up with them. Powering up by holding down the button of the attack and waiting until it pops to the max. If you hit, you will deal 2-3x times more dmg. Dynamic decks allow combos, but they are a lot weaker than powering up individual skill.

    When SOTA just started, all people did is just have 2 skills from your DMG tree of choice and just go raming them up to 80, while also working on some innate skills, which require a lot more exp to level up. The best, in the end, is to level skills to 20, lock them, then start focusing on a few at a time, level to 40, lock, level next few to 40, lock. Then to 60 etc etc. And don't do too many DMG skills since you only have so many slots.

    When you get a hang of it, create a few decks, one ranged, one melee, one AoE. But it will take a while to get that all unlcoked etc. Mobs almost always attack in groups, so kill mages and archers first, while keeping your defense up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
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  20. Elwyn

    Elwyn Avatar

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    They're already stated that the main economy balance, of loot and vendor prices, is scheduled for R53.
     
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