2 new skill for Consumables

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Elrond, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Just finished reading @Chris tweets about the two new upcoming skills for food and potions .(Hope he reads my ideas also)

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    This is a great opportunity for foods to get some love as well not just potions .

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    You can allow foods to be consumed 1 sec max or instant and they can apply for example a 50% buff increase for the next 30 seconds , after the duration expires it becomes the 4h standard buff. Players have a choice to train the skill which doubles that duration to 60 sec or train a skill that will increases the potency ( instead of 50% up to 70% ).

    Bear Surprise with +50% effects for 30 sec

    +1.5 combat health /sec
    +1.2 combat focus /sec
    +12 STR

    I think players eating foods every 30 sec will help the economy and crafters lot more then having them eat 1 food every 6h . It will also make low lvl foods more apealling for the increased focus and health regen .

    Also i dont think everyone will just go for the increased potency skill in this scenario , ( in yours they probably will ) but this way there will be players looking to save gold while getting the benefit of better buffs .... food is cheap if you eat 1/ day ....it starts to cost if you use 50/hour.


    Another bar for consumables only would also help the economy alot, being able to store many different food types or potions is really not an option in the current setup .

    We also desperately need food for crafting, gathering, fishing , farming you can dish out hundreds of food recipes with ingredients found as loot from monsters ...
     
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  2. Elryin Silvertree

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    As it is already, I forget to eat before going into combat most of the time. If I had to do so every 30 sec I would completely ignore it all together.

    To deal will lower foods, they should be combine-able into "meals" that give all or some part of each of the buffs related to the individual food (and increasing where they overlap) but for slightly longer.

    I agree that some foods last too long. 2-4 hours is probably long enough on a meal, so individual foods should be 30 min-1 hr.

    I think Browncoat Jason had some posts related to food a while back... Might be wrong about the person, but I know I read some really good suggestions related to food recently.

    my 2 cents, take it how you will.
     
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  3. Elrond

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    Its just a concept idea ... doesnt have to be 30 sec could be 3 mins or 10 mins doesnt have to be 50% could be 30 % or 60% .... Its up to Chris to find the sweetspot . But i understand if you disagree with it all together . Personally if we ever get food buffs for fishing , gathering, crafting id probably use a system like this alot..otherwise not so much .
     
  4. majoria70

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    I don't think we should make all foods necessary to eat more often. It doesn't fix cooking skill or make it interesting. Sure you need to eat more often so some will and some won't. Viability is key. Reason to eat is key. Not dumbing up the system. Make cooking skills more interesting by ability to enhance foods to be better and varied. It is OK to have 4 hour foods and 2 hour foods in my opinion even 30 minute foods or quick bursts of shorter energy foods. Something for all occasions. Trying to force the need to craft more is not the answer. I hate ideas to lessen durability more for crafters to be more needed. Why not give us interesting things to make and combine so cooks want to cook and players want to eat those foods? It just gets so the easy way wins out way too often. So anyway this is what I heard.
     
  5. Rook Strife

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    Another round of Bouncing off to the next bright idea of consumables and Bard skills

    How about continuing and actually finishing the work that was started on either Tanking + Aggro Mechanics or Pets


    There is a giant list of things that still need to be improved in these areas


    For starters

    Walking into a room pulls everything in the solar system and generates more aggro on the mobs than other players / pets attacking them


    Instead of slapping in every bright idea as they come, how about write them down on a piece of paper.

    When you complete one system and are ready to move to another, you got a nice list of ideas that you can put together and work on as a whole design.




    As a side note: that consumables idea doesn't even belong in combat skills. It should be in Cooking / Alchemy / etc specializations

    And as another side note: It might be useful to be able to reliably click on a player and initiate a trade for consumables first
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  6. kaeshiva

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    Its nice that you can increase potency or duration, no beef with that.
    Problem is that 95% of cooked foods are still useless and people still eat the same handful of things, and this likely wont change it. We'll just have longer lasting bear surprise or more potent bear surprise for the cost of sinking exp into something. Its not a bad thing, but its another one of those situations where I wish they'd just look at all the unutilised food and FIX it.

    Personally, I wouldn't want to fool with eating every 30 seconds. I wont use potions because 10 minutes is often too fiddly to bother with. They simply don't do enough. The buff would have to be a lot more than 50% for me to micromanage to that extent. You'd need a big power spike, or some sort of auto-consume mechanic (as many other games have) but even still 30 seconds probably not. I could see (using the bear surprise example) making it twice as potent for half as long, or 4x as potent for 1/4 as long, but you start getting anything under 30 minutes you need some way to queue it up. If the purpose is increased consumption, then this would not create any conflict.
     
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  7. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Yeah, the whole choice thing seems unnecessary. For one, the potions I use most often have no duration, so that's moot. Given the choice between a 6 hour food buff, or one that's still 4 hours but 20% stronger... that's a no-brainer. Its a false choice when one of them is clearly inferior. But we're sorta used to that. As @kaeshiva noted, we have a large "choice" in foods, but people only really use a few of them. I think a good fix for that is giving them more varied buffs, not just stronger/longer lasting version of the same buff. Maybe some foods give non-combat bonuses. Give some of the foods crafting bonuses. Or a weaker/shorter duration version of some of the obsidian potions. You wouldn't use them to go do a few rounds at ERG, but maybe you're about to salvage a ton of stuff you've been saving, or level up some skills. Gathering bonuses would be good too, a two hour buff that makes second tier materials drop 10% more frequently or gives 10% more base materials or a 20% speed bonus would be super useful. Now, suddenly a ton of different foods have uses. If bacon gave a- 5% failure rate to masterworking, you'd never see a living boar again.
     
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  8. kaeshiva

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    And if we got boar essence, we could sink soooo much gold out of the economy making massive subterranean pig farms that extend for miles!
     
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  9. Barugon

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    Nice! I've been asking them for a while to increase the duration of potions. This is a great solution; hopefully pots will last 20 minutes at skill level 100.

    [edit] Never mind. See below.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  10. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Sure, go and prove me wrong. :p
     
  11. Barugon

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    They're two different skills. I don't think that you have to choose between them, just get them both.
     
  12. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Read the OP. Its a choice, taking one sets the other to unlearn.
     
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  13. Barugon

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    Ah, well that's stupid. I was almost excited for SotA for a second.

    [edit] I bet he makes them 20x skills too. Anyway, back to ESO.
     
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  14. Cora Cuz'avich

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    He did say "focus on consumables this release." It's at least possible that means there will be something else to be excited about.

    Man, I almost typed that whole sentence without laughing.
     
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  15. kaeshiva

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    Focus on consumables -
    Most consumables' duration is so short (like stat potions, etc.) that its not worth using them.
    There are 4 or 5 foods that are economical/consistent to make and are useful.
    There are a couple of 'nice' foods that require boss drops (which are of course, rare - my personal record is 27 phoenix kills without a single talon drop during which I seriously asked myself why I continue to play this game - please make this drop like dragon haunches) and end up being the sota equivalent of a meal served on a plate made out of solid gold. So kinda pointless. Same thing with the dishes using once-in-a-lifetime fish catches. (Or never in a lifetime, as in my case for many of them.)

    The other dozens of food that exist nobody makes and nobody eats.

    I still think if we're going to focus on consumables, a skill that makes them last longer or w/e or more potent is fine.
    But lets FIX the useless/pointless consumables, yea?

    About the choice thing - this is just simply what we expect from Sota nowadays. There's no reason to make 'duration' and 'potency' mutually exclusive. There's not a balance reason - the consumables aren't that powerful. There's not a logical reason (if you're talking about like, food, yeah? I don't get hungry as soon, so I have to what, enjoy my food less or get less nutrition from it or...?) Huh? Its just another one of these pointless punishment mechanics which is creating the illusion of player choice, when really, its just a way to make food effects stronger and you have to eat more of it. Considering that I have stockpiled enough dragon stew that, at 8 hours per shot, I will not run out for several years (not kidding), its pretty obvious which of these' choices' I'm going to make. Why would I put experience into a skill that makes an 8 hour food last 12 hours? Or a 4 hour food last 6? That's not a very good use of experience when I can just eat another one. And the short duration ones the increase isn't enough to bother with (in the case of stat potions), and the short duration foods are just completely worthless even if extended.

    It is so, so abundantly clear when we see things like this that the person designing the things doesn't play the game. When all those new fish recipes were added we just quietly shook our heads in disbelief. When the wyvern food was first added and it was worse than the mass produceable wolf surprise (until enough people complained loudly enough it got a boost). If you don't want to play the game and get an idea of what is acceptable bonus-wise for the implemented cost (or vice versa) then LISTEN to the people who DO.

    About the only thing I could see a 'duration increaser' being worth investing experience for, would be the COTO potions, and somehow I get the feeling that they're going to be excluded.
     
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  16. Violet Ronso

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    The answer from Chris is pretty obvious on this one, they are mutually exclusive to not make them necessities. He made them so you can only train one so it is a choice, and made the potency one SUPER BAD (I mean 10-20% = +1.5-+3 stat points...) to make sure no one felt like they had to train them...

    I mean all in all it is a step in the right direction, but it falls too short, and ignores too much. After receiving enough constructive criticism they will "consider adding other consumables" like food and what not after gathering more data, simply to give them an excuse to leave it as is for the foreseeable future... like everything else in this game, working as intended.

    Not like you guys should expect them to change their way to do things, heck after multiple release failures they said they will once again reevaluate their decision to have a monthly release cycle and they have not, they continued to have release failures... I honestly believe they are so disconnected with our reality and are too deep to ever understand their playerbase, like, ever...
     
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  17. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Also, make the Int potion not stupid. Dex and Str can be made from relatively easily obtained components (corpion claws and bear heads) but Int requires a comparatively difficult-to-get item (lich skulls) to make.
     
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  18. kaeshiva

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    Why is dev resource being spent on adding something that is "super bad" and will have minimal effect on gameplay?
    We want to add a passive that adds minimal effect to consumed food - fine.
    Still don't understand what that has to do with locking out a different passive that increases the duration, presumably also to a very small/minimal degree.
    They're hardly necessities if we're just talking 1-3 stat points, whether they are exclusive or not.
    I have the same problem with when they made the stat buffs exclusive as well, which to date I think there was no good reason for - the stated reason at the time was to reduce the number of buffs people have to cast pre-combat, which made no sense since those were the ones that lasted the longest and needed recasting the least.

    I mean, why are we doing this instead of fixing/finishing something?
    Why intentionally add something that people are going to go "eh, okay, i'll dump a million xp in and turn it off and my food's a bit better now." Just fix the food problem!!!
     
  19. Charon

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    I'm trying to recall the last time I cooked anything other than bear/boar surprise, venison surprise, dragon stew and, when my ranged friends bugged me, grilled wyvern.

    The issue, IMO, is there's no reason to make anything else. Once you get to the point that you can kill obsidian anything there's no point in making anything else as far as everyday foods go.

    It'd be awesome if I could make foods that gave any crafting buffs to use up the thousands of fillets instead of selling them to the vendor. Foods that gave situational buffs would be nice as well but I know that'll never happen.

    It'd require effort and some thought.
     
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  20. Elrond

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    Id love to see that happen also....part of the problem with food is the lack of variety ...theres only so much STR food you can make.... 1 STR food 3 STR food 6 STR food 10 STR food 15 STR food .......crafted gear is built largely on same systems...minor str, medium str, major str .... hence the problems we face with the economy .
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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