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25,000 arrows and 50 Ranged Combat

Discussion in 'Release 21 Feedback' started by Waxillium, Sep 7, 2015.

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  1. KuBaTRiZeS

    KuBaTRiZeS Avatar

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    that's how it works. Haven't collected data to check the %, butthe fact that sometimes you don't spend an arrow is there.
     
  2. helm

    helm Avatar

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    Just a couple of quick notes about the price and weight of the arrows.

    Purchased arrows are prohibitively expensive -- fixed costs of crafted arrows are less than 1/4 of this price. Purchasing arrows from NPC vendors is simply not realistic because of the costs.

    Metal scrap and wood can both be considered abundant in the sense that obtaining them in sufficient amounts by gathering does not feel like a grind-athon. This also means that later when them markets mature a bit (granted, as of now a large percentage of the offers do feel more like jokes than honest offers), timber and ingots can also be purchased at a sensible price, if one does not want to do gathering.

    The biggest arrow-making bottleneck appears to still be iron/copper ore, despite the fact that 75% of the ore can now be replaced with metal scrap when making ingots, so in R21 one can craft 4 times more arrows with certain amount of ore, compared to R20.

    The most convenient places to obtain metal scrap at this stage seem to be the places like North Valeway even for a skilled character: for a beginner the lowest level skeletons are manageable, for skilled fighter they are just walking weapon racks waiting to be "harvested" (and numerous enough to bother). For a bit more challenge (both scrap and fighting xp), head to Greymark forest, the short swords that these elves are carrying are not quite as good as rusty swords, i.e. they yield less scrap, but they are also much lighter (possibly one of the best scrap/weight ratios out there if carrying capacity is an issue). The large skeletons of Veiled Swamps with their two-handed swords provide a good "scrap per kill" ratio. However it might be better to up the salvage skill a bit before doing too much either two-handed or short swords, as the amount of scrap is highly dependent on the skill.

    So I think it's safe to say that more than 80% of the price of arrows is dependent on a) the price of feathers and b) the scarcity of iron/copper ore.

    Therefore if the devs want to make arrows cheaper to make (which also influences the market prices directly), all they have to do is to make feathers cheaper (probably a way to gather them comes with agriculture), and perhaps adjust the iron/copper ore yields a bit (currently even high-level nodes appear to never give more than 1 ore per go, at least I haven't ever seen it in R20/R21). At the same time it might be a good idea to at least halve the price of arrows that can be bought from NPC blacksmiths.

    I can't really comment about weight of the arrows because I have never had any problem with it -- yes arrows are kinda heavy, but when you shoot them, they disappear from the inventory, making room for other stuff.
     
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  3. Chatele

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    Amen to all you have said here, especially when you need those arrows to venture out to get the dang nodes ..... maybe make it less components and parts to make the arrows, like just wood and cheaper feathers .... just plain ole wood ...
     
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  4. helm

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    Thanks, Tyde. I'm not sure about "failing to consider" it, as my intention was not to be exhaustive, but just to write down a couple of quick notes. Trust me, you might not want to see/hear me in my exhaustive mode.. ;)

    But you're right, those are good points and important to consider. I did actually measure the "crafting table time" now. This is the only part that can actually be measured -- I don't think it is very meaningful or even possible to attempt to measure gathering time, as it is typically mixed in among all the other action: you happen to spot a wood/ore node, you just go gather it. It can actually be a nice little break from all that fighting, and this kind of habit usually provides you all the materials you need for arrows and then some (excluding, perhaps, the ore..).

    So I went to my crafting tables, and measured my "worst case" time to craft 2000 arrows, starting from basic gathered materials (wood, looted weapons, iron/copper ore), refining and preparing them in sufficient quantities, and finally making arrows. Normally I don't do that as I usually have materials freshly prepared (for example, it is much nicer to store metal in the form of ingots or scrap than to hoard rusty weapons) so this really is the worst case scenario.

    The maximum possible time (in my case) to craft 2000 arrows "from scratch" is about 11 minutes (10:39 to be more precise). I could have maybe shaved a minute or two from it if I really wanted, but I wanted to measure the "relaxed, no-hurry, humming along as you go" -mode of crafting, so there it is. Most of it is preparing the materials, actual crafting of the arrows is less than 2 minutes.

    This means that crafting table time (taking into account walking from one table to the other) for 1000 arrows is about 6 minutes, and in one hour could easily craft about 12 thousand arrows from scratch.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  5. crydee

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    Hope you didn't take any offense, as none was meant. I find gathering quite low on my playtime priority list, so I attribute a high cost to any gathering time. Your previous post seemed to emphasise the low cost of crafting your own arrows, and I felt that you didn't address my own personal high cost of running around and finding the materials myself.

    Either way, 6 minutes to craft 1000 arrows ! Very quick! and to think I've been supporting the local blacksmith in Owl's Head all this time. He sure isn't getting my business anymore
     
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  6. helm

    helm Avatar

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    Absolutely none taken at all. I should have probably mentioned something about the time issue but by then I didn't have any hard numbers, and I often feel that my posts are already too long (TL;DR).

    Yes, it's not that bad. To be fair, I suspect that the time may also somewhat depend on one's proficiency with the mouse -- I use my own in 1800dpi mode and have practiced fingertip fast aiming with it on an fps game shooting range, so I might be a little bit blind regarding mouse related effort.
     
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