3.5 Path of Truth - Finale - Artifice

Dear Avatars!
Please include feedback on whether the story seems coherent, what you didn't understand, what was/was not helpful (journal, maps), suggested dialogue improvement, and anything else you want to suggest.

Please use this thread to help reach the target of a well-told story ...

Thank you!

Vyrin and Paladin Michael
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I finally finished the truth quest last night - and honestly, all I've been doing the entire game is oracle visits, raising skills and the truth quest, nothing else.

What a disappointment Artifice turned out to be.

I'll start with a big positive - I'm so glad there was no fighting. I'm still woefully unprepared for combat, and Artifice is labelled as a tier 5 area, so I'm glad I didn't have to go into combat mode, because that would have put a big bad halt to my progress.

So up till now, the quest has been a lot of running around the world. A LOT of running around. It's really been quite dull, honestly. I get that it was largely about finding out the secret of bonesteel, but it didn't feel very satisfying. It felt like a lot of running around and finding the right NPC like a needle NPC in the haystack of Novia. That's largely what I remember of the whole truth quest.

But the big draw for me, for the whole game, was that there are 3 titans. I was very, very much looking forward to meeting Boreus; very much looking forward to what a u8-esque TITAN! would look like in modern-day Shroud of the Avatar. I'll get back to this.

So finally after doing the Etceter quest where I spent most of the time dead just trying to get to the entrance, because I had absolutely no chance of fighting my way through to the mine entrance, I go back and finish my penultimate task, talk to Avitus, talk to Captain Steel, talk to Notus and I am granted passage to Artifice. My final challenge in the truth quest! Boreus awaits me!

Okay, so I make my way into Artifice, and another positive now - this place looks awesome. The rooms are really well done. I like the sudden unexplainable change of personality in the satyrs. I sort of expected that they might attack me. I like that they didn't attack me.

The pilgrims are generally really annoying. There is a lot of them in a confined space all over Artifice and for some reason that I still don't understand, we have to walk at what feels like 20% speed when walking through them. There shouldn't be less NPCs, this speed issue should be removed entirely for fun's sake.

The NPCs don't have a lot to say. I sympathise with the devs here, because they're not really meant to say much. They don't really feel real. I thought this might be some sort of illusion for me in this truth-themed dungeon, but I doubted that as a limitation of the game, and it turned out I was correct. These are real people and the game just isn't quite equipped for so many real-people conversations. I can look past it, but this will be a small drawback in a world that is trying to feel real, especially given the point above that I must walk slower when walking in very close proximity to other NPCs, because this means we are dealing with the worst of both worlds on these 2 points to do with NPCs.

The 3 keyholes were near impossible to see. I had a very good look around that area for the 3 keyholes and could not find them. I talked to the satyr guard several times in case I had missed something but I had not. He was unclear about where the keyholes were and the keyholes themselves were very, very hard to see. I only eventually found them because I googled for answers, and with some luck. My light spell was on. There are actually other keyholes further in Artifice on the cages that have a gold box around them; I'm not sure why these don't. It also felt really weird to have to use keys of lust, greed and envy. What did these have to do with truth? Is it trying to tell me truth is inherently tied to these? I don't get it. Maybe Boreus would have some answers?

The cage with the children and the spikes; the first thing i did was walk up to the door. But oh, that square on the ground that looks like part of the ground isn't just part of the ground; it's a pressure plate. Oops. Whatever, was I meant to rescue them? How do I do that? Later I came back and some of these children had respawned, and I tried to talk to them, but there's nothing you can do to save them.

So I walk past them into this maze. This maze was an absolute nightmare, easily the lowest point of Artifice. I have no idea how I solved it. Random walking around with no clue where to go, no feeling of progression, no sense that I was being rewarded up until the nightmare was finally over. I spent so long in this area that I went back the way I came towards the cages in case I had been going the wrong way; maybe this was some sort of trap. It was and was not a trap. I was going the right way, it was just terrible, terrible design. This area must be polished. You could make a separate feedback post for just this one area; I can't go though it all here.

So I eventually get to the end of that disaster maze and Notus is really the high point of the dungeon. I don't need to expand here; well done.

Then you finally get to see Boreus. Finally! My time has come to see a titan!

.............

I can't express how disappointed I was, and you know why, because you know what I saw. That was not a titan. In no sense of the word. I was just there to pick up an item, and I didn't get any answers as to why I should even care about it.

A few more bits of busywork with the guys below and Artifice is done. This wasn't fun, but at least the forge and the Lycaeum looked nice (though I got lost in the Lycaeum, especially finding my way out - the place needs some signs).

I'm now so discouraged that Sequanna and the other guy's name is going to be similarly disappointing. I was expecting Lithos or something, and I got Boreus. Or Boreas. His name is spelt differently in different places.

 

Thank you for your Feedback, @Quenton.
I hope @Lum the Mad will read it and have a look on the essential things, disturbing the feeling on this quest.

 

Further good Feedback was given here by
Vladimir Begemot October 2017.
Vyrin June 2017.

 

Completed Love Quest and Truth Quest. Enjoyed the Love Quest, it was complex enough to challenge without hitting walls. Only issue I had was going to Brookside to meet Samael and unable to find him. I presume it was a side quest at this point.

Completed Truth Quest. Run here, do this. Worked my way through it with no real issues, or challenges, until Artifice. I enjoyed the idea behind Artifice and its presentation. As the previous respondent noted, the keyholes for the door locks do not make themselves easily seen. My gamma is generally low, so the darkness and shadow on that door frame basically hid the locksets from me. I only picked up on it when I read the notes above that there were locks...I had presumed the keys would interact with the door by possession.

Children....I presumed there was a challenge, but did not see or recognize the pressure plate....that was a real annoyance to commit an atrocity inadvertently. According to Notus I could have bypassed it...perhaps so, but I had no clue of that.
Maze. A real miserable experience. It sucks. Reminds me of the maze in Skyshrine for EQ to get to the dragon. It will be a source of many trips to a spoiler. Someone will post a solution and everyone will use it. Your call.
Crown. Truthfully, I never noticed it until I inadvertently clicked on the stool. I would make it a bit more noticeable...perhaps its effect in place as it is when you wear it.
Return to Hepestaus (sic) for completion and wrap up. I might have missed the prompts to go back to him, but would make it more noticeable.

Overall, good work on the quests so far.

ADDER: Courage Quest. Haven't done it yet....hard to find a reason to spend 5 to 8 hours working it when the item reward is not usable. I use a 2H weapon...what is the point of doing the quest and getting an item you cannot use? Yes, I have to do it to complete the trilogy and to advance, but why do I get penalized for the item reward? Make it a ring or belt. Better yet....make all these items values transferrable to an existing slot with a visible effect. Currently, the items have marginal value, but in the future I have no doubt they will be replaced by other artifacts or crafted items fairly soon.

Thanks for the work.

 

Thank you for your feedback, @Nomalice.

 

I actually thought this might be the case as well. Since the keys were keys of greed, lust, and envy, and they were very easy to find and I thought maybe picking up these keys was just a ruse and the "true" keys were more cunningly hidden, so I went back into those rooms to look for different keys.

There were no other keys, these strange keys that didn't make sense were the right ones and the keyholes were just incredibly difficult to find. Normalice is probably right; it'd make more sense if keys throughout the game would just automatically be used when you open the door, instead of having to manually use the key on the keyhole. Keyholes in general don't look very good in the game - just thin rectangles.

 

We need a Big Gold belt of Courage.

 

Right, since you put so much effort on it, i'll be glad to give sincere and honest feedback, so here it goes.

1) My quest itself was done in about 4-5 releases ago, so i really don't know how much it changed, but for me at the time, this path in particular needs A LOT of work to be even close to what the Finalle (Path of Oracle) is.
2) I was expecting to solve mysteries and to do a real invetigation, seeing people lying and discovering the TRUTH behind something that was found by me (BoneSteel Dagger).
3) The quest itself was way too linear, just talk to a key character, say "bonesteel" to NPCs until you find the exact character, then go to him exaust the keywords, move to another city, rinse, repeat, until Etceter.
4) No real plot ongoing, no bizarre or sinister motives discovered, no one to blame, no trial nor sentences proferred. Just go to Xenos where the lottery is rigged in your favor, enter Artifice (so yeah, a LOT could go here)
5) The city itself (Artifice) has a lot of potential, but i too, was unimpressed with the NPC reactions there. Too artificial people with the same dialogue lines. No way to "participate" on the activities or deeper interactions, or take virtue hits there... No way to imprison yourself on the illusions and then have a glimpse of lucidity coming back to you and telling you to get out of there. The Satyrs change also needed some work: why didn't they try and instigate you into taking part on the process also? Why no hint of the change already in Etceter? Why weren't they preaching the pleasures and the goodness of the place to ordinary people and even to you? Why none of the possible ends is that YOU end up on that sado-ritual cage being flayed out and then having a chance to escape there (of course, after taking huge virtue hits on participating on the things there: lust, greed, gluttony...
6) Why can't you help the children? Why the trap-thing is so hidden or invisible, no way really to do nothing? Why can't you really help Boreus anymore, like the others? Why a non-interactive corpse that tells you nothing?
7) The liberation of the fauns? Almost okay, you must convinve him to do it, but there could be more.

So, the questline really feels somewhat lacking at the moment and i hope it gets filled up to launch.

Remember that it is how i FEEL about this quest in particular - as a player, a gamer and a RPer, not meaning it is plain "dev-bashing" nor that i don't think it can't get better later. (there are better ones - as i said, the Oracle path is in overall good, only lacking a bit of polishing in the end)
So no judgements please, even being a critique it's just an ordinary and sincere feedback about a particular piece of the game that can get much better and impressive than it is now.

Thanks.

 

Thank you @Sir Leonard for your good feedback!

 

A few thoughts from me to the finale of the path of truth:

I think, in comparison with the other paths (Courage, Love and Oracle), this one needs a few moments, giving us the feeling of a little more effort as just running around and clicking keywords. The feeling is missing, that we really have done something important ...

Maybe a kind of deep throat whispering us a last clue to find out where we have to go to confront the evil Elf ...
--> What about a Satyr - as an exception - with a good mind - or a fawn we fought free from an evil Satyr ?

And what @Sir Leonard said: WHY CAN'T WE HELP (the cildren) ???
What about to sabotage the huge facility at the end, before we run out to the oracle?
(Would give a nice effekt for Episode 2: WANTED - Avatar! A contract killer is assigned from the evil Elf for what we've done ...)
May be - that would be a very nice thing, too - our good and "old" friend, Elf Kiakis, helps us with the sabotage and free children activity at the end?

I also think, we all are happy for this path without priority on fighting, but maybe one or two puzzles like on the oracle path, would help.
1. To open the last important entrance, not with running wild and without knowing how we got there at last.
2. To sabotage the huge facility and free the children (Well, if they are meant to be real ...)

 

I just want to add that my experience was very similar to Sir Leonard's whole experience in terms of expectation and what I went through.

It felt like a lot could be done throughout the truth quest that in some way would have had you learning about what truth is and being interactive, but instead was just about going from point A to point B to point C to point D and saying the right keyword once you were lucky enough to find the right NPC in a city or seven of NPCs.