Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

9 bugs....

Discussion in 'Release 54 Feedback Forum' started by Barugon, Jun 12, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,294
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I reported 9 bugs since R54 and only 3 have been responded to. Why should I report bugs if they're just going to be ignored?
     
  2. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    We try to get through them as quickly as we can. And it's a never ending process. Time spent depends on how many reports we receive, how much time spent on research, if we have to follow up again due to missing info, how many dupes have to be filtered out, the nature of the bug, etc. It's various factors.

    I'll chew on this for a bit. I really can't control what people put in posts or how much they post, but it factors into my day and how much I can get submitted sometimes. So this will always be a joint effort between us folk forums and the entire community that reports bugs. I do understand everyone's heart is in the right place but we're all human - including us devs. I may have to start laying down the law on incomplete reports and skip them as an invalid report. I don't want to be dismissive or get any back lash from that, as we welcome all reports, but I want everyone's time to be respected. There are only so many hours in a day...

    I feel like this is venting and ultimately a rhetorical question you are raising here, but whenever I see something someone may feel disheartened by -or possibly feel it is even personal - I feel compelled to post. I'm very much okay with people being proactive and reaching out to me directly. So please message me directly with these specific concerns, and include any ideas that you have that may help with the process when it comes to efficiency. (JIRAs won't be opened up to the public to submit, keep in mind, that opens whole can of worms).

    Also keep in mind there are reports that I've seen but not yet have responded to because I don't have anything concrete yet (sometimes, that includes questions I need to ask, but there are things I need to check first).


    Thank ya!
    @Barugon
     
  3. Lace

    Lace Avatar

    Messages:
    1,567
    Likes Received:
    5,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Florida
    @Lexie I don't know how customized your Jira is, but even if there were a data dump of bugs with the subject line only or a keyword, that folks could peruse to know if its dupe that may help cut down your dupe time, even if this was just exposed to the community bug hunters that volunteer that could work too.

    I know I will scan the current iteration to see if a bug has been reported but everyone words things different and searching the forums is kinda meh since there is no 'eheckbox' categorization for bugs we report. I know in other games there were keywords you picked when submitting a bug and all we have here is the forums, where one person might call it NPC issue when its really an inventory issue etc.

    Anyway food for thought.

    I appreciate what you do and know its a thankless job heh.
     
  4. By Tor

    By Tor Avatar

    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think one bug I reported last release was responded to and it was discouraging. Maybe the devs could at least put something like [Investigating] in the title so you know the bug has been read and they're doing something with it.
     
    Cordelayne, Chatele, Barugon and 2 others like this.
  5. Sorthious

    Sorthious Avatar

    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, totally agree! A lot of times people are very vague with descriptions of there problem. They fail to mention the location(if applicable), just say things like 'I'm having a problem', or are super vague with things like '<insert anything> doesn't work right.' In addition to that, people will tell you to re-report a bug that you reported many releases ago, that received little or no response then. I'm not sure why issues aren't catalogued in a database and left there till resolved. I know @Lexie does a great job with addressing issues and maybe some issues fall through the cracks or receive a lower priority than other issues, but people shouldn't have to file bug reports for the same issue release after release. Anyway, maybe having a tutorial on how to properly file a bug, and explaining protocols involved in reporting bugs would help to limit duplicate reporting, vague descriptions, incomplete bug reports,etc.
     
  6. Diab Blackbow

    Diab Blackbow Avatar

    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Trophy Points:
    93
    There are very easy to follow directions right at the top of the bug forums. If people don't read or follow those, a tutorial wont help much.
     
    Jaesun likes this.
  7. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    @Lexie Another issue concerning dupes is how difficult it is to search for reports, since each release gets its own bug forum in that release's feedback forum.

    The best option is to limit the search to the parent Feedback section, but there's no way to filter out the feedback forum for each release from the bug reports forum for each release. Since a lot of the feedback is with issues that probably should be reported as bugs, you end up getting a lot of search results that aren't actual bug reports, which you have to filter through looking to see if your bug has already been reported in an actual bug report.

    The next best option is to go to advanced search, and individually select each bug forum. If you want to try multiple searches using slightly different terms, this gets unwieldy.

    Ideally, there would be a single bug section, separate from the feedback section, with subsections for each release. (Or, the current release, and another subsection containing previous releases.) This would make searching via the advanced search much simpler, as I could enter my terms, select the Bugs section, and leave "search child forums" checked. All of the results would be actual bug reports then, instead of a mix of bug reports and other posts.

    Unless, of course, there is already solution to this that I am not seeing. (In which case, it should be spelled out in any document that instructs a player to check to see if their bug has been reported already.)
     
    Nog and Lexie like this.
  8. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thank you for the input. The thing with JIRA is we don't have a way to limit it so people only see bugs, and certain bugs. Some of which are written with some rather technical jargon. The other thing is this: searching JIRA is a lot like searching the forums - which players can do now to for the [Known] tag. You are right though, everyone can submit things differently. JIRA is no exception from the forums in that regard, or any bug reporting system really - even with keyword tags. I search JIRA extensively in ways I wouldn't expect any player to spend time doing on the forums, so some slipping through the cracks is still expected with player reports. Especially if it is a long standing bug that is still open. That's perfectly fine :)

    I was kind of thinking along the lines of having a volunteer system review the reports that have not been responded to yet. We already have some amazing rock stars who do this - Alley, Rinaldi, Liz the Wiz, and Mischievous Dragon to name a few. It is a tremendous help so I can work on submitting JIRAs as much as possible.

    I was also thinking of no longer replying back with specific JIRA #s. I post them so people can follow up with me with concerns. While some will follow up on issues, not a single person has given me a bug report # to pull up for review later - not in months, anyway. It may not seem like much that would free up time. Perhaps make it more of one way versus two way interaction. But, I think that would have its own consequences. I'd like to find some middle ground.

     
    Cordelayne, FrostII, Jaesun and 3 others like this.
  9. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    If someone is submitting a bug again and again, I'd rather they message me directly about it, in addition.
    I also just realized people may be worried because the QA forums are up - as if my focus will be completely shifted there. It's a special early addition of QA for a couple specific reasons. We are not *that* close to the next release!
     
  10. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Ah, hadn't thought of that!
    I've always just continued posting in the same thread if I wanted to follow up on something. If I recall correctly, though, once old release forums are archived, they are locked? It might still (even if only rarely) be useful in order to follow up on a bug from a previous release then. Though, I suppose it's just as easy for us to link to the original post in a new post or PM.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    Sorthious likes this.
  11. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen Emeritus

    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Yes, those are locked. It would be more for reference as you noted :)
     
    FrostII, Jaesun and Sorthious like this.
  12. Diab Blackbow

    Diab Blackbow Avatar

    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Umm okay... Yes Grandpa. People are seeking fixes, not attention.
     
    Sorthious, Barugon and By Tor like this.
  13. By Tor

    By Tor Avatar

    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think any of us are looking for attention - we're just wondering if our bugs are being read so we don't feel the need to re-post them after the current release. Not very "kung fu master" of you to call others "immature" or having A.D.D. for wanting to make sure the bugs submitted are being read for the betterment of the game.
     
    Sorthious, Jaesun and Barugon like this.
  14. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

    Messages:
    7,944
    Likes Received:
    9,015
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Hemut
    We all mostly love the game, and we just want it get better.
     
    Sorthious, By Tor, Barugon and 2 others like this.
  15. Adrian (Kung Fu Master)

    Adrian (Kung Fu Master) Avatar

    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Understood that we all want the game to be better, but picking on super busy Lexie isn’t cool. You can tell she’s really busy under the Developer tracker tab. I think her time responding to bug reports and testing the bugs is better served than responding to complaints.

    Threaten not to report bugs isn’t making the game any better.
     
  16. By Tor

    By Tor Avatar

    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Barugon nor anyone else threatened to stop reporting bugs. He asked a question why bugs seemed to go ignored and if there is a reason to report them if they are. He never called any dev out by name. Who is picking on her? Some of us came up with suggestions for any easy way for devs to let us know that the bug has been read. I think that's a great idea so we know the bug has been read and we don't have to wonder if it's been missed. If someone thinks it may have been missed, others may report it again.. which would waste a lot more time of a dev than putting a "bug received" or "investigating" response in the bug thread.

    Now do you understand, Grasshopper?
     
  17. Diab Blackbow

    Diab Blackbow Avatar

    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Looks like your crusade to protect the developers has made you blind. The OP did not pick on Lexie and did not threaten not to report bugs. @Barugon simply pointed out that he reported a number of bugs which probably affects his play style and only a few of those have been responded to. This is a legitimate concern by someone who wants the game to be better. This led to a conversation on how to improve the process.

    I generally only report bugs that directly impact how I play and thus my enjoyment of the game... It is always nice to know that these are getting looked at. I spend lots of time documenting the bugs with videos and screen captures. For instance, MS was has not been working which directly impacts my play style and enjoyment of the game. I bugged it and it was responded to and now fixed. That response and conclusion gives me confidence that the process works and my enjoyment of the game has increased.

    Now if we get no response on the bugs that we report, then we have no idea if they are being looked at. This is a negative especially if the bugs directly impact your play style and fun. Since the bug forum gets replaced every month, this just adds to the feeling of your reports being buried. If Lexie is super busy as you pointed out then maybe it's time get her some help which is a solution that she pointed out in her response.

    I personally found that reaching out to @Lexie and sending her cakes works wonders.

    From your signature, it looks like you enjoy agriculture. How would you feel if you really wanted to grow plant X but found it bugged? You reported the bug, it was responded to and the next release you were able to grow it. Now what if you wanted to grow plant Y and you found it bugged too. You reported it but no response. The next release, plant Y is still bugged. how would you feel then?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
    Barugon and By Tor like this.
  18. Pounce

    Pounce Avatar

    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    714
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Europe
    I am not sure but afaik linden lab uses some sort of public jira systhem (or used, is sometime i was with SL)

    I do not think Port should do the same but similar, an sythem that is not optimized for forum but for submitting bugs.

    You need some sort of presets of category systhem and so on to help the user (who is not an pro at submitting bugs in most cases)

    I stopped submitting bugs because i always feel as if leaving dirt on the floor, smudges on the doorknobs and an bananapeel on the doormat (ok simple forms tent to already confuse me)

    The forum systhem is just very..messy i think

    Then, simple search function for bugs by location, type of bug and so on works much better with preset type of bugs and so on.

    Right now you depend on pretty much one person reading the forums and putting stuff into the Jiira at need, using an systhem close to the jiira you use already would make thisw task smoother and allow to tweak the sythem to streamline reporting and make it wsomeway guided for the one reporting the bug, doing it in forums is at least for me ackward messy and taking a lot of time to do proper.

    An sticky with faq and info for bug reporting is not ideal, manuals in general are not optimal for somethign that can be done in an question and answer systhem allowing the user to select from keywords set up by the systhem (consistent keywords, proper order of reportng the facts needed, preventing overseeing part of said questions.

    Plus easyer communicating by sets of colors maybe (white not processed, yellow processing, blue like waiting in line, green solved.... ) just as example giving the user the feel "yeah i do not write it for nothing"

    I am not an professional bug tester, i have often no idea what the right tag is to search for, so many can report exact the same bug and i never notice because i just not know the right searchterm to begin with.

    So well, i hope there is an "Jiira report systhem " somewhere in the future that gather data from users in an interview style
     
  19. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,294
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I originally posted this thread because last release (and releases before that too) there were several bugs that got no response, R54 came, the R53 bug forums were locked and now it looks like the same thing is happening again. I'd also like to speak about the frustration of having to convince the bug wranglers that my bug reports are real issues. Many times they're just dismissed or they post that they need more information when I spent a lot of time making sure the bug report was as clear as possible, including pictures or video, and as easy to reproduce as I can make it.
     
    Sorthious, Cordelayne and By Tor like this.
  20. By Tor

    By Tor Avatar

    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    It is a legitimate post. No issues with it except for one kung fu troll.
     
    Sorthious, Cordelayne and Barugon like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.