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A few bits of feedback for next Release(s)

Discussion in 'Release 5 Feedback' started by Dermott, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. argyle

    argyle Avatar

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    He is responding to someone who was making the argument they should be carried over to launch (or as he put it 'live') as a benefit for testers.

    I can respect that, but I disagree. I feel the benefit I receive in game by being an alpha/beta tester is the experience I earn playing the game for months/years ahead of time. I get to learn the systems and map and generally am well acclimated to the game before non-testers set foot in the world. As such, I don't personally feel any other benefit is owed to me in game.
     
  2. Trenyc

    Trenyc Avatar

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    Never heard the expression, "Knowledge is power," eh? That's fine; doesn't change the fact that it is.
     
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  3. Maximus Katse

    Maximus Katse Avatar

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    Great idea on looting. I'd like to see a hotkey type thing like they have with stacks...i.e. regular drag goes to inventory, +CTRL equips, etc.

    Agreed on the cotton plants. Every time I got stuck this release it was because of cotton harvesting. I put a bug report in for a specific plant...I think other people have since added to it with others.
     
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  4. Kaynith Stormcaster

    Kaynith Stormcaster Avatar

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    Oh I certainly don't think that anything is 'owed' to me by playtesting. I'm also not one who thinks that if the playtesters started with a hundred ore in their bags that it would somehow 'unbalance' the game.

    And yes, knowledge IS power. By the time the game goes live, you and I will have so much of an advantage over a new player, it's not even funny. Having an extra... oh... 100 iron ore in my bags, won't change that one bit. But it would make it a bit less monotonous to be able to craft my starting gear right off.

    But people are always going to come down on two sides of this particular argument, and never the two shall meet. ;)

    But I'm always for more options, such as maybe a toggle "Would you like to carry over a small amount of resources and your recipes from beta into live?"

    If checked yes, you keep all your learned recipes, and cap your resources at say... 100 each. 100 iron ore, 100 wood, 100 flax, etc. So this way there is no overwhelmingly large advantage, but merely convenience for the player not having to spend hours doing grindy stuff to make some armor or a weapon, or a rug, etc.

    If checked no, you start pretty much 'naked and alone' like all the other new players and you can feel better about yourself that you are being 'fair'.

    Fair is an illusion. It simply does not exist except in an artificial and highly enforced state. It's also, in my experience. the most vulgar four letter 'F' word in the English language. ;)
     
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  5. Trenyc

    Trenyc Avatar

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    No one is talking about rolling over the actual items. I think (hope). They're talking about rolling over the recipes that are recorded in your recipe book, the argument being that "relearning" those recipes is just a tedious and unnecessary game of jumping through hoops. In terms of items, I don't think anyone will argue with the fact that we're all already starting with plenty enough of an advantage with all the Founder and Benefactor items we're getting. :)
     
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  6. Kaynith Stormcaster

    Kaynith Stormcaster Avatar

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    As such, I've already stated that I support rolling over recipes from R5 to R6 and forward. Yes, it's definitely unnecessary tedium. Carrying over the recipes would allow those of us who have been in a prior release to jump straight into testing other stuff and not have to spend hours re-learning recipes.

    For example, I can currently craft quite a bit of stuff. If all my items are wiped, but not my recipes, I can replace that stuff in short order without having to go to either my written notes, or wiki every single item.

    I also think that character and item wipes should not be done unless absolutely necessary for the same reason. Come R6 it would be much more effective if I could just log in with what I have now, and get right into testing instead of spending half a day 'preparing' to test. J'know what I mean, mon? :)
     
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  7. Mishri

    Mishri Avatar

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    I've found that I don't even want to re-test things in each release. I crafted nearly every item when crafting was released (missed like 3 recipes). I only go back and craft 1 item now to see how it's changed. I see no purpose in crafting a bunch of items again each release. Absolutely nothing should carry over from alpha/beta to official release. Early on they said many recipes would change so people had to re-discover once the game goes live. I would expect that most will be slightly different so wiki's will need updated and your old recipe book should be practically useless. (Also, some items/recipes wont be in public testing, released when the game goes live).
     
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  8. Dermott

    Dermott Avatar

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    Mishri, I'm the same way which is why I have not even worried about snagging a house plot/house in any release past R1. I did all that then, new Releases are for new content testing in my book.

    My usual Test release schedule is to spend the Thursday/Friday evenings (I work standard weekday hours) gearing up in Single Player and checking out any adventuring areas and developing the "look" that I want to use on the weekend. Weekend testing is generally single player during the daytime hours (unless I am busy doing other things) and Multiplayer during the evening to catch any events that may be going on (such as dev visits and so forth).

    As it is with the crafting recipes resetting themselves, it seemed to me, at least for this release to become a lot of unneeded repetition. Time NOT spent retracing steps is time that can be spent seeking new content, issues, etc.

    I also think that once they know they can easily tweak the recipes without breaking 15 other things in the process, they SHOULD tweak all of the final release recipes to start everyone (including the wiki) over from square one.
     
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  9. Jivalax Azon

    Jivalax Azon Avatar

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    Sorry if this seemed to come at you Argyle, it was not meant as an attack. Nor are you the only person who has expressed opinions on it and certainly you did not express outrage. Sorry if that was implied.

    This is a situation I have run into several time (I love to beta test and have done it a fair amount). I was part of a closed beta and focus beta for a game I really loved about a decade ago. The team I was assigned to was to test leveling speeds of the 'classes' from level 1 to 30. So for weeks I leveled every possible character combination from level 1 to 30. (Yes, some adjustments needed to be made.) When the game went live 30 days later, I leveled my character from 1 to 30 in less than an hour (in that game that would take most people 8 to 10 hours of steady play). The point is, we will have advantages carried over.

    Totally agree with Stormcaster. Even if I start with 100 ingots in my inventory, in a month the balance will not be upset because some of us started with crafting mats. In all actuality if we started with 1000 crafting mats, what would we do with them? I don't know, maybe craft stuff for noobs? So that there could be player made items for people starting the game? That is not a bad thing. Does anyone think 1000 mats will garner enough gold to buy a house and put someone else out on the street who could have gotten the cash if only those nasty testers didn't have such an monstrous advantage? No. In the end any such small advantage passed along is irrelevant, so keeping recipes is moot.

    In the end, I don't really care. I will be crafting and giving stuff away to new players just like I had always planned. If I start with recipes and mats, I will only get to do it sooner. The only real issue here I see is; can we keep the recipes between tests. It would be much more convenient if we could. I have crafted for 4 releases now and will continue to do so. It allows me to test a variety of gear. I'm not testing crafting any longer (unless they do a revamp), I am testing other things. As such, it would be nice to get the recipes rolled over. Does anyone think there will be chests full of founder gear scattered around the cities like we have now? No, of course not. It is there so those who don't want to craft can have gear and test stuff too. So again, keeping recipes between releases is logical and helpful to testing.

    *gets off soapbox and dusts it off for the next point of view*
     
  10. Kaynith Stormcaster

    Kaynith Stormcaster Avatar

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    I plan on being very involved in the crafting community. Starting with no mats is fine by me. But it'll take me that much longer to bring goods to bear for market. Which means, new folks won't get items as quickly, and there will be a decreased variety of things available at launch.

    You aren't hurting myself or people like Jivalax Azon. We'll have our items for personal use in very short order. By the time launch rolls around, folks like us will be very, very good at crafting and gathering. And if one of us is a tailor and another a blacksmith, we'll likely just trade for what we need across the crafting community. Hey, you have an extra plate helm? I'll trade you that for a backpack, etc. Crafters, and people involved in the crafting community, will be the first to be geared to the teeth. So, we are not going to be affected at all, as first and foremost, we'll just trade with each other for what we need.

    You ARE however, somewhat crippling our collective ability to get new spare/basic items to the market at launch. No extra mats means no extra spare things to sell, and what we do have we'll be saving to trade with each other for other things we need but can't craft. Which means you are really hurting the newer players, and not us at all. The longer we spend having to harvest resources, the less time we spend crafting basic items that new people are going to really need.

    So either way, it makes not much of a difference to me. But ye all who think we're wanting extra 'advantages' might want to ponder that the next time some folks go thinking that we're greedily asking for extra handouts or a leg up, and realize who's actually hurt in the process (the newbies) , and who's trying to actually help them out (that would be us).
     
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  11. Trenyc

    Trenyc Avatar

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    Ah, avarice in utilitarianism's clothing. There's nothing quite like it.
     
  12. Kaynith Stormcaster

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    I actually find that highly insulting. Assumption for the win.
     
  13. Trenyc

    Trenyc Avatar

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    If you're insulted by it, you might consider reevaluating your perspective. You're quite specifically suggesting that you might be given a starting advantage, and you're justifying it with the argument that you will use that starting advantage to promote the greater good. It goes without saying that the effort will prove profitable for you, especially as you and yours reach the higher tiers of crafting well in advance of those less fortunate. In the right context and the right hands, a head start can prove to be a decisive advantage.
     
  14. rune_74

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    It's not like crafters are doing a charity to people, they are making money off sales so it isn't some greater good we are seeing here.
     
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  15. herradam

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    Oh, goody. Let's import libertarian style BS into a video game.