A few words about PVP...

Well, looks like this discussion has come to the same place all the others have, just going in circles.

At least there is one thing most of us have agreed upon, finish the Obsidian Trials.

 

It's hard for me to talk to you. You take phrases out of context and appeal to them. Read my post completely, as a complete text rather than isolated sentences. In the second message I wrote that Yes a belt from a fall really quite valuable thing, but for many hours and days of a farm I didn't receive it, as well as my friends. The consequence is no motivation.

tournaments and ratings - my message is spoken in the plural. you said about one tournament and one rating. Since you want to take me at my word, do it better. But I wouldn't want to go that way. My message was addressed to developers and of course I meant that there are no official tournaments and ratings.
I hope we are on the same side and want the best for the game? And what's the point of you trying to make me look like a liar? I write very carefully and try to choose the right words. Because my English is not very good.

 

Not trying to make you look like a liar, just added in what was left out.

 

I don't want to argue with you. I know that you are more experienced and English is your native language.
Better tell me, do you think that the game is all OK with PVP?

 

Not at all. I think the ransoms are keeping many people who would be willing to try from actually trying. A few people even mention that in this thread. Another one is level difference thing being an issue. I personally dont think its as bad as some people make it out to be. Now I do not think adding some some crazy drops that can be used anytime, not just pvp is the answer though. While we want to get a healthy pvp community, we do not want to do this at the cost of losing the pve community. Hence the suggestions for pvp items, points, skills, ect ect is something I can agree with as the pve community would not care. Now I do not know why some games have like 0 reward for pvp and yet pvp is constant in those games like knight online was. all you got were national points that increased the rank of your guild, and that did basically nothing. The pvp zone always had players though.

 

You know, we have not the worst team in PVP. And I always joke, that in my team Deus - force, Illum - intelligence, and I - heart of)) So here is I all the heart want to this game proceeded. And I ask the community to support me in this. That's what my message was about.

 

I'm not asking for crazy PVP rewards. Or something like that. Although like would)) I want development. Moving forward. Changes'.
I ask that.

 

Yep. An ancient holdover from the first MMO's, shoehorned in to give a "reward" to people who then complain that it's just matchsticks anyway. Get rid of the matchsticks and see what happens.

 

Port, need a separate cluster with full pvp/full loot from the start. Keep it open for a year before announcing what a total failure it is. Make doubly sure to log weekly stats and be prepared to show them in detail to back it up what a failure it will turn out to be.

Too expensive to do? Ok, have 1-2 releases be free of ransom to gauge the interest in PvP. After the initial spike I'm pretty sure this will show much not interest. But, of course, the reasons will be "well there's no interest because there's not much reward!".

Regardless, Anthrax had some good ideas on awards that are PvP focused. Do PvP stuff, get rewarded with stuff for PvP. Excellent ideas. Please look into implementing those regardless.

Oh, and LOL @ "the only reason to PvP is for fun". Well, yeah, that's the whole point, isn't it? I don't get rewards for killing individual players in other games I play, so why should this be different? I might be #5 on my team at the end of a match instead of #10, but that doesn't give anything other than bragging rights. Or maybe I just don't play games that reward killing other players. The thrill of PvP to me is killing other players rather than stupid AI, not the rewards.

For the record, I don't PvP in this game.

 

Hell, I'd say start with corpse loot as in if you die to a monster your corpse is there and you have to go back to get your stuff. People can't take it but if you don't go or can't go back you'd lose it. That is a small step but I can already hear the dance partiers going clicking on their keyboards.

 

Speaking for myself, A bigger reason is that its rather intimidating. The few hardcore enough enough to pvp are in fact rather hardcore.

Theres no like, more casual or less competetive PVP to start people out, it feels like going in deep end.

First experience with PVP was getting one shotted by Para, without even realizing what was happening. He stared down at me with a Cabalist hood and magical dye armor. What was this
creature ? Also he was probably 2x my level, I was level 56 and pathetic at the time.

Second time, got killed quick by fire mage. Also double my level. Highly flammable I was not. He was.

Third time, just killed in Lost Vale for laughs when I was trying to check it out.

That was enough for me. Losing prolly 12,000 GP worth of stuff. So it's like, insult to injury as well.

Later on I realized: mages have a huge advantage over blade/plate users who eschew magic. Sure you can do 1000 hitpoints with Coup De Grace, if you can catch someone, if you don't miss them. But even my secondary 45th level Mage is already far more effective than a heavy armor / blades user at their level and resistant to so much more magic attacks.

I see a lot of Outlanders running around with basic stuffs, I imagine them trying PvP and having similar experiences.

 

It is also a reward. In the WOW we played a lot to reach a high rating in the arena. And the Gladiator title was a better reward. Just a title. But it was a great honor to have this title.

 

Ok, million dollar question, why is it some games that have no reward for pvp are successful with pvp? Seriously, I am trying to understand why it works with some games and not others.

 

Fair enough.

Port, put in more titles for PvPers! And obviously this needs official tournaments and stuff. Could also have titles based off of last month/quarter/year stats (i.e. total kills, total times NOT killed/ganked, most damage done, etc.).

 

In WOW you can buy powerful pvp gear, titles, mounts with honor points and arena points.

I want to share what someone said me on discord: "I would like to offer the fact that its a sandbox and whatever we ask for in the realm of pvp should be constrained to the concept of "build it yourself". We just need parameters to do that such as factions and many other things, that the parameters can be used for RP or even PvE."

We already have pvp titles, but none care man. What we need imho is pvp releated drops/gear/mats and passive pvp skills.

Most of games mentioned are instanced with queue system, open world pvp need to have a meaning or it will be a desert like it is now.

Main goal in sota is progression and getting powerful stuff (arties and mats for crafting), so what about a pvp progression and pvp items different from pve ones useful just against players?

 

And not much for the trials can be achieved unless we get a decent raid system. Timed challenges in this event with a purpose for the teams, quests to complete, areas of the scene to take such as take the flag battles. A popup when the event is starting with a 'join' option that teleports you to it. Pvp ransom removed. Also added into the game a fix to heal and raise your team members in a raid situation but on a timer situation also. More loot and xp will not make pvp fun. I think we need to dig deeper.

We may not make pvp in this game perfect but we can give lots of reasons to join in to the challenges the game provides. I won't pvp having to drop all my items off but I would perhaps join in a raid system such as Wintergrasp event if there was no fear for my items. Let our game give fun incentives for all. Faction, justice system, a cool bounty system, titles that give buffs but make you choose. Daily progressive quests etc.

 

I will bite at this, I to am curious but I will also provide why I think.

First what type of PvP are we talking about, there are 1000000$ tournaments that are taking place with a lot of these games, but look HARD, They are instanced fights they last a short time. ALSO they are not really Skill based. You pick up a gun it is a gun, grenade a grenade. Sure some Player skill in targeting and movement and team work and such but ZERO I am a GM Poisoner and Poison you for 10 ticks and I have 100 fire resists so your fire ball does nothing. (((please do not get wrapped up in that it is just an example to show a diff in Skill based Games))) So you can log in jump to a scene and race to grab the Rocket Launcher or hover craft or . . . . And the Player skill NOT avatar skill levels make the difference. When it is over one person or team is dead and the other is alive. It is then over. NOTHING was actually won other than bragging rights. Players accept that and they do not need to spend Hours, Days, Weeks, months training a skill to become proficient.


Here and in almost every other MMO there are Skills, and how strong you are in that skill equates to proficiency in use damage resistance . . . . . Mac you have the glorious of the ability to pick any of a multitude of templates to adjust to any situation. I have not gone crazy with skill training I stick with a Ranger Template. Sure that means I suffer some deficiency and totally makes PvP practically impossible for me to win because I would get mauled (and do) but I do not mind the death or the fight, and I have even prepared a deck to shift to if I get jumped so at least I might be able to punch back and run away.

But these two worlds are completely different and the players have completely different goals and mindsets, and they will NEVER be compatible.

I have and stick by the statement that a Skill Based game like this one will never be able to be "Balanced" as anyone can use an opposing template to beat any other template.

In the end I think they succeeded because they appeal to the player who just wants to sit down run amock kill friends or enemies and move on. MMORPS have longevity and the passing moment could have significant results (+/-) in the future of that Avatar?

I feel it is pretty simple to see, just that trying to make those PvPers here realize it is the hard part.

 

I'm guessing a combination of inherent gameplay being fun, not having an insurmountable mountain of grinding/crafting you have to do to be competitive, and failure not being punished severely.

But, honestly, those other games I played were nothing like this, so can't really get an apples-to-apples comparison. First-person shooters are fun playing even though I get no rewards. Real-time strategy games against another player is also really fun but absolutely no rewards. I also have fun playing World of Tanks (15 vs 15), but get no rewards other than the generic "you get a bit more xp for doing more aggregate damage".

Because of all these PvP games I played, I'm used to getting zero rewards for PvP.

For SotA, I never PvPed because of the (what I perceive to be the) grind to get to a competitive level, balance/bug/exploit skill issues, and... I'm sure as hell not going to chance losing a 100k item to ransom. No way. Not after I put in all those hours mining and mining and mining and crafting and throwing away crafting all just to get a decent item.

 

I wish they would get off their buts and finish this they have said before they were going to introduce PvP items to be won / found in PvP scenes / fights but have yet to produce.

however I will also caveat this that once they do a significant portion of PvPers will come back and say WTF that is useless, why does my hard earned special Voporal Sword only work against other Avatars.

 

I am absolutely (and always have been) in favor of PvP items/progression/etc rewards for PvPing. Always have been in favor and always will be in favor.

I'm completely against PvE rewards for PvPing.

Note that I'm also against PvP rewards for PvEing. If I (never PvP flagged) kill a wolf in a non-PvP zone and get a "Ring of PvP: +20% damage against players" I would consider that really stupid and out of place.