A plea

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ulskanine, Nov 22, 2019.

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  1. Oracle Watcher

    Oracle Watcher Moderator

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    Bzzt, thread cleanup initiated. Please keep discussion on topic and free of personal attacks!

    Thanks!
     
  2. Candor Atlantica

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    I honestly don't see the big deal in RMT. If the issue is Rares and the ever increasing prices of them because new players want them and can't get them, then why did SOTA go through the effort to EXPIRE them in the first place? They created the coveted category of RARES by utilizing such a system. They knew very well what would happen next. I've seen several reasons why RMT is to be eliminated, but none are the truth. There is no moral high ground for the elimination of RMT. Perhaps us common players can argue why it should or shouldn't, but at the end of the day it all comes down to SOTA wanting to squeeze out a bit more from all of us. If they truly wanted to end RMT, then eliminate all trade. No more commodity trades. No more deed trades. No more POT transfers. Then we can all tell each other how much fun it is to eliminate the real world perspective from the game and concentrate on the in-game fantasy social world of ours.

    OR:

    Maybe SOTA just stops creating RARES for purchase and keep all DECO forever available! Then, create a whole new feature that COTO's can truly support. With all of these Player Owned Towns around here, why can't large scale town features be added to a scene for COTO's that can't be transferred and once placed, can't be moved unless you pay a demolition fee? Would you like a blood river coursing through your town? Pay up! Want your small hovel town surrounded by rolling hills and mines? Pay up! Want a Ornate gold paved road with all of the infrastructure to fast travel from one side of town to the other? Pay up!

    Make everything available! The RMT model will only be working on depreciated value for decorations instead of ever increasing prices. This is a viable solution to RMT, but you want to know why it won't be implemented? To keep on squeezing us.

    Alright, maybe not to squeeze us of our hard earned money for valueless deco, but it won't be implemented because it seems the simplest solutions are always the ones that are overlooked.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  3. Elwyn

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    There has been talk of something like making it possible to sell them to other players for crowns, with a percentage of the crowns going to Port. It still doesn't solve the problem of people with multiple accounts (including married couples and families) who want to have a common pile of deco, but it's something.

    I've already placed a Compendium teleporter next to the Westend rift. Mind blown! (At least those can be traded, it was the one from my third account!)
     
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  4. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    This right here would be the solution to this problem. Many games do this, and it allows people to buy and gift. You'd have to make the item non-sellable, which is a new problem that might not have a ready solution - because although many want to gift, many more will want to trade for gold/COTO's.
     
  5. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    While many here are into the game aspect, we have to remember that once upon a time someone sold some Uber Sword of Uberness from a game on eBay for tens of thousands of dollars. And on that day, the floodgates opened to those interested in turning their hobby into profit.

    What really is a shame is the whole aspect of time-limited, finite and unique items that people pledged for when the game was in development and for a time after persistence. This, to me, was one of the more unique factors of the game. I joined around R31. I knew that things that came out before I could no longer get unless I paid gold/Cotos/$USD. I also knew going forward that things coming out that I could get would allow me to have schwag and, if I chose, gift it to someone or trade it to someone for gold/Cotos/$USD.

    While I can understand the need to curtail the RMT for the health of the game going forward, it's clear that the decisions made have not pleased everyone. There is no real solution that is going to please everyone. And that's unfortunate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  6. Gageman

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    You are correct here. However, if we look at a couple of things, first being the HUGE amount of RMTs that took place in UO (This game being the "Spiritual Successor" and secondly, that the internet has monetized everything that can be profited upon and Games are not immune from this truth. Lets add to this that early on, the largest investors were essentially promised a laissez faire stance from the developers who used this potential as a tool to encourage investment in their project. If they didnt want RMTs there were hundreds of things that could have been done at release to kill that concept. Those things were not done. Yes their #1 motive was to make money and the #1 way they did it was by influencing others to think that they could also make money. I know LOTS of folks who did just that. Its a sound business model. There are uncountable numbers players out there who would gladly pay obscene sums to become elite or to acquire items that they missed out on by coming late to the party. That is a microcosm of life my friends. I'll take a page from Chris's play book and say , " don't lawyer me, bro." Of course they didn't enter into contracts with the player base, they gave personal guarantees that they would stay out of the secondary market and act in a manner to protect RMTs. This was while it fiscally benefited them to do so. Now the landscape has changed and the best way for the regime to make money is to declare that RMT a devil and sell us items we cannot trade at a reduced cost.
    This is not to give the game back to the players and right a historic wrong, its to take advantage of the current climate and keep on earning. I know a lot of people have no interest in this aspect of the game and just want to play . A lot of people dont like the distraction of RMT and want them gone. That is fine, your opinions are yours and they are as valid as anyone else's. Just don't pretend like everyone wasn't in on this from the KS and that a large group of people , like @Vladamir Begemot aren't being screwed by this move.
     
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  7. Gageman

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    But they did this none the less. Bleeding feet and all, they promised that IF you buy this item, you can make money on it in the future and I would venture a guess that a HUGE amount of these items were sold for that exact reason. Otherwise , why would a player purchase 15 sets of indestructible crafting tools? You are only ever going to need one set....
     
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  8. Gageman

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    This is still kind of shady, its like saying, hey you do me first and I will let you get yours after, but instead of keeping the promise, you bounce.. Then you expect people to take you at your word the next time?
     
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  9. Spungwa

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    So I see the problems with expiring items and making "rares". In a modern game where supporting an item is not just a 2D pixel picture plus a line in a database, but involves collision surfaces, particles effect and god knows what else. Expiring item means having an ever growing list of items that you need to support through upgrades to the platform without these items EVER bringing in new revenue to the developers.

    I also see the benefit of heritage items, as when accounts go inactive, these items are locked away and new player buy new item from devs rather than buying recycled items of past player that gives the devs no income. But I also see the problems with heritage items from a gifting/sharing/deco problems that have already been mentioned.

    I would suggest having pure deco items NOT be heritage, so that the problems listed will not happen but I would not expire these items in the future.

    Then I would have a set of heritage items that are functional items that the devs can sell to every account without old players selling them to new players. Exactly as they did with the heritage prosperity tools. These items should be "quality of life" improvement items, that any player after playing a while would see the benefit in adding to their account.

    EG
    Each type of mold combiner. Have a heritage item that allows a player to buy 100 of a given type of mold and craft them together with this (not consumed COTO item) to make a 100 times durability, no trade mold of that type, and goes zero value. The gold sink is still paid to the economy, but I no longer have to waddle over to the crafting vendor often to buy 10 new molds. Yes it becomes ransom immune, but no one is jumping for joy when they get a mold as the ransom item. So I don't see this as game breaking, but any player that has crafted for a while will see the benefit in their time and effort in investing in this. As the resulting item is no trade, players cant offer this as a service, any player that wants this convince pays the devs for that convenience on their account.

    Make a repair kit combiner of each type, as above but turn 20 repair kits into a 20 use repair kit. Again not game breaking as i still need 20 repair kits, but cleans up my inventory and could save some weight.

    Personal no trade shrine vial. Lets me fill the vial from a devotional and give me 7 uses (so a week worth) of getting that devotional buff without having to go back to the devotional.

    I'm sure people could think of other functional items that are not P2W, but more QOL that could be heritage items that the devs could sell again and again to each generation of player after they have played for a while and see the benefit in their player time and effort, rather than a igg benefit.

    This seems like a good comprise to me.


    Regards
    Spung
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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  10. Grumpy Krabnevir

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    The only reason that #2 is a problem is because they have failed to build a game that can attract more than 1000 different players in a week. All of these issues are a compendium of bad decisions made by the devs that have done nothing but drive away players until there are only a few of us left to bicker among ourselves.

    For the record, SotA was INDEED marketed initially as an investment opportunity as Richard mention specifically multiple times that he wanted the in game real estate to represent real value. Those of you who harp on RMT because you don't personally like it aren't really helping things either. At least half of the people left playing are only here because they have spent serious money on it and it's hard to just walk away with nothing.

    One person, I won't mention by name, spent 10's of thousands of dollars buying a custom built pot and even had a website with lots for sale at prices that would allow him to recoup his investment over time, all with the full understanding of what he was doing and blessing by the devs, until they decided they could make a lot more money just selling towns to everyone (remember even then there was supposed to be a finite cap on the amount in order to retain the value of each town owner's investment) and forced him to lose 10's of thousands of dollars by completely devaluing his property. I'm not saying this was right or wrong, i'm just saying that was INDEED part of their original plan AND MORE IMPORTANTLY their marketing pitch.

    This person summed it up best with the most accuracy of what really happened:

     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  11. Grumpy Krabnevir

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    As a matter of fact, had they properly handled the RMT angle of the game (as if they could when you look at how they handled player retention and designing an attractive and fun game), they could have built a real world economy that ATTRACTED players and generated TONS of interest and free press. All they had to do was make a game that was remotely fun and entertaining, but instead we got punishing game mechanics, horrible loot tables (for YEARS), endless grinding, combined with sims life dancing and house deco and fishing tournaments (which oddly seem to really excite Starr for some weird reason).

    The problem never has been RMT, the problem ALWAYS has been the fact that the game as designed is not what most people (or even 1000) are looking for in a game.

    Look at the hundreds of millions of dollars and millions of players Pokémon has had . . . . . . .

    Now the only hope for the game is the fact that they are on the path of turning over content development to real people, give the game another 5 years and they might have something, if they can last that long. But now with heritage items, MANY MANY people with multiple accounts are dropping or threatening to drop the subscription (of course, since the whole purpose was to get multiples of items for trade or whatever). I expect it to get quite serious over the next 6-8 months.
     
  12. Cordelayne

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    I agree. What is the reason to stick around anymore? Grinding and crafting simply for grinding and crafting's sake? If my friends were still around and playing that might be one thing, but most of them are gone. No thank you, I value my finite and precious time.

    As folks have mentioned over and over and over again, the implementation of incomplete and/or unbalanced systems is extremely frustrating. Player dungeons are a prime example of this. Catnip needs to fix these things before moving on to the next incomplete addition to the game. Sadly and cynically, I have reached a point where I have absolutely no faith that they will. The only voices that are heard anymore are those players who have the time to "throw bits" at Chris during his Twitch streaming.

    It is what it is at this point, I am just watching from the sidelines now...
     
  13. Pawz

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    My take away from this thread is that we need more dance parties! :D
     
  14. Grumpy Krabnevir

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    It is as if you read chris' mind. How uncanny . . . .
     
  15. Sulaene Moon

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    We are striving to create a new paradigm of multi-player RPGs – this will be the epic fantasy experience that players have been waiting 15 years to play!
     
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  16. Pawz

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    Brilliant minds think alike!
     
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  17. oplek

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    Lately I've been playing The Outer Worlds. Been having fun. Between that, 7 Days to Die, Subnautica and Factorio, there's a consistent theme that the developers had a singular, clear vision as to what they wanted the game to be, and focused all their energy on doing it well. The Outer Worlds isn't a AAA game, but still does a lot of things well, including dialog and fun mechanics.

    SOTA, on the other hand, feels like it started off as a rec room, that makes money off concessions, and to try to attract more visitors, decided to add pool tables, a few old arcade machines, a hot tub, a basketball hoop, a boxing ring, and an arts-and-crafts section. There's no real common thread... just throw anything at the wall and sees what sticks. So nothing really works together. Brewing, fishing and even crafting furniture, don't really mean anything in the broader scope of this world. The only consistent coherent concept here is trying to be the Ultimate Collector... with some grindy unrewarding adventuring tacked onto the side.

    I've often thought about giving feedback, or even trying to tack the question of - if we reworked the food system, what would that be? But between the dev staff's reduced bandwidth, them having their own ideas and priorities, their lack of listening to the players to any perceptible degree, their lack of participation on the forums, and that my voice gets drowned out by others (or intentionally ignored in my case)... there's a 99.99% chance I'm wasting my time.

    So what's my feedback to the devs for how to improve the game? Please play other games. I can only show you the door...
     
  18. Gageman

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    You make an excellent point Grump. When this game should be doing everything in its power to not lose more core base players, finding new reasons to get those core players to quit, IE turning their cash money interest in this project to dust is a great way to make none of it really matter, because SOTA will have gone the way of Tabula Rasa. I know what you are going to say, buuut we'll get new players who will save the day and buy cheap stuff and yada yada yada. Lets face facts, New players picking up a free game and jumping in have a much higher probability to jump out and on to the next free thing the internet has to offer. They have no skin in this game. What do they care? Maybe they spend $10 in the crown store , but probably not. This is what is going to save us? This is why you alienate Original Gangsters like @Duke Ezekiel Cooper and @Lazarus Long and hundreds more? These guys have been here since day one. Working to build this community and make this game succeed, but we got all the money out of them we are going to get, so screw em . These are the folks we want to support with our hard earned dollars??
     
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  19. Geaux

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    It's my understanding that 5 out of 4 students have trouble with basic math!

    It's my belief that 10 out of the same 4 have trouble with SOTA math from time to time!

    I hope folks do not give up at this time...innovation takes some time. It's my hope that THE TEAM will see the wisdom of ratifying conceptual changes and publishing THE LIST...not a timetable or schedule, but a "this is where we want to be when we arrive".

    I think THE TEAM has to get there and then decide, so maybe, just maybe, these are temporary stop gap measures that will see amendment to *most's satisfaction(*because as we all know, nothing will ever satisfy everyone).

    I would point at the LOOT NEAREST "E" capability as my proof of concept.

    There was no mention of it in advance, no mention of it even in the original release notes when it was enabled, and oh my what a game changer that has been for me! I am looking forward to more, expect that more is in route to us all, and sincerely hope that THE TEAM sees the wisdom in publishing THE LIST!
     
  20. oplek

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    A followup thought. In the past few years, Eve Online trimmed a few things, such as the built-in browser, and the captain's quarters. Neither were popular decisions, but the big reason for them was to cut technical debt, so they weren't spending valuable dev resources on maintaining them. SOTA already did this with bag mode.

    There may be other aspects of the game which should be cut... instead of perpetually adding in more mechanics. When will that end? When 95% of the dev time is spent bugfixing existing things?
     
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