A thought to consider for PvP in this game . . . .

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Weins201, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    I know I am not a huge PvPer in the game, I would engage and believe PvP can be a viable part but some things happened yesterday that gave me some more insight into why the hurdles for PvP integration in SotA are bigger than I thought.

    I truly believe that balance in a game like this is near impossible with the skill / template of the day, also the massive skill level vs problem.

    I know they are working at negating the Level 100 vs lvl 50 but this is what I garnered from an encounter yesterday.

    PvPers use a whole separate deck set to actually engage in PvP specifically. . . .

    SOOOO

    You are in a group in a PvP area and have set up a Healer (2), Ranged (2), Tank (2). None of which are set up to actually PvP ((sure they may be strong but not really competitively decked out for it. )) Along come a Player who sees you and stealth's away and figures out who what what each of you are doing. (** BTW even after engagement - they did not show up in nearby player even after first attacks **, not a bug but) They back off and set up their PvP deck run back in and hit your healer = Game Over. Since they will not draw agro the monster will now hit the party and they will work thru you in seconds. It will be over before some players who have alt PvP decks setup even switched.

    Again this is a result of 2 things; 1) much higher skills = harder faster hits 2) ((more important)) they have set up to specifically attack players.

    yes this is "strategy" but if it results in outcomes like described 95% of the time it is something that needs to be addressed.
     
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  2. Loucento

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    Who killed You guys?
     
  3. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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  4. Fister Magee

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    I'm confused as to what 'thought to consider'? Sounds like the PVPer is playing as one should? Don't flag, if you don't want to enter PVP!
     
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  5. Ristra

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    There are only 2 things to consider with PvP. Time to viable (how long it takes to get to a level/gearing that allows for competitive play) and cost of PvP.

    Both are not in a healthy state in SotA. Which is very odd since I specifically remember the devs pointing these two things out over the years.
     
  6. Weins201

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    Kinda of supporting the Level vs, concept and once oyu have the Levels / skills avail you can setup up yourself to "Gank" like I described
     
  7. Ristra

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    Kinda, but...

    Taking the level disparity out kills the difference between a FPS and an RPG. A better solution is to give a reason to target players on a competitive level and not easy targets. "Why should I attack this person" does not exist in SotA. Nor does "why should I not attack this person"
     
  8. Stundorn

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    There is and will never be a pvp sandbox due to many, many "Game design" (gamemechanics) decisions.

    To make it a worthwhile pvp sandbox and also make it a sandbox with or without pvp it needs significant changes.
    What we have is SP game with MP Mode only worthwhile for socializing. Even groupplay is beside a CP barely fun or rewarding. PvP was and is only sheeps to the Wolfs. If you are PK you can have fun, although the very less participants.
    If you are interested in Duells and Tourneaments well, they do it, but there are tons of game who do a better Job for Arena PvP.
    And to Flag while adventuring or going to pve in PVP Zones (sounds weird, or) it's just a pain in the...

    I dont want to post what it would need and make it a worthwhile pvp experience, because it's not very popular here. Even with upcoming changes. No way.
     
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  9. Weins201

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    I get that and that is the problem with PvP and the core of this games PvP

    FPS actually does not have Levels; A sniper rifle is a sniper rifle, Grenade a Grenade. Sure there is some PLAYER skill level in how they play style - - but mostly once you start playing you can compete.

    RPG is totally different (Role Playing) this game take the skills that a plyer gains over play time and give it a value. Here a level 50 sniper vs a level 1 sniper has more accuracy, longer range . . . . .

    That is the difference that PvPers here are refusing to accept. As a result you end up with the skill / template of the day.

    This is a viscous circle that has bee gone thru over and over.

    Your comments just support that mind set more and more

    The topic of this original post just added to that. With these templates; ones set up for PvE vs others which set up for PvP are not compatible/competit

    I heard over and over that I am not set up for PvP. NOT I suck at PvP so do not want to, it is I can PvP, but I am not geared or decked out for it. . . . .
     
  10. Ristra

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    I disagree. All it will take is 1 change. Purpose.

    SotA has the perfect vehicle for the purpose of PvP and it's not touched in the least. A moral system, the main thing that would make any game a spiritual successor to Ultima. Tie PvP in with a moral system and PvP WILL thrive.
     
  11. Weins201

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    liked it needed to say like +1000
     
  12. Ristra

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    The game doesn't give you a reason to be set up for it. We PvE for everything.
     
  13. Weins201

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    ;) true the game does not give you a reason to set up for it but, it is still being done.

    now you go back to the reasons I have no desire to participate in Open PvP - then mentality of the "PvPer" but no real need to dredge that up anymore
     
  14. Stundorn

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    Moral /Justice and PvP related virtue will come, but there are a handfull other things.

    Sort of a cap what is not 200
    hard or soft, doesnt matter.
    Equip very less powerfull.
    Loot System overworked.
    To have a PVP Endgame with lots of participants like me who is a pvp sandbox player, played a lot of open ffa pvp (full loot) games, you need to measure down the requirements for a competetive toon.
    No Chance with the actual grind system.
    No Chance with the actual "I have 5 Builds" System, players can switch while combat .
    What is the solution for the Situation above. Go pvp Zone adventure, but have your pvp deck set alternate.
    But as long as you have mob aggro and people stealth and ambush... Well.

    There is no RP about going PvP, there is nothing beside I want to go PK.

    And as long you can circumvent PVP it's nothing like Tournaments and Arena style stuff, but for this SotA is not well setup.
    They can make it consensual with the passes with the NPCs give you a safe pass through for gold or take the risk or fight the guild who is holding the CP in the pass or whatever .
    Imagine: passes PvP Zones after a Clan claimed it. No Mobs... But pvp to get thru or pay the NPC.
    But again there is a lot of other things that would need significant adjustments.

    First of all create sandbox content beside progress grinding.
    Adjust, reduce requirements to grind to get a competetive char.
    Adjust Gear.
    Adjust Ransom System.
    Sadly the bag mode is gone.
    Someone played Darkfall (Aventurine) ?
    Someone experienced what happens if a full party of level 80ies met someone level 100+ ?
    Sorry, as i said month before,
    No matter how high someone is, no matter your effort.
    8 midlevels should get any highlevel in serious trouble, they should be able to kill him.
    What we have is people who grind 24/7 are too OP.
    To have a serious pvp sandbox experience it shouldn't be powergamer content . Casuals once reached level 80, what is a lot of playing and grinding need to be able to make their contribution.
    Allways , everytime, everywhere, no matter what build they run, if it is not completely crap build.

    No sorry. The adjustments to create a worthwhile pvp sandbox are really huge.

    The PK Type of player will allways game it and because he want to be the badass and without the possibilities to have Guards attack them (even if, some people would solo the whole City Guard Regiment, you know the solo Sieges, CP 's, Dragons. ...) it's impossible .

    They can do it, but i doubt they will and have the time to do it.
    And lot of people wouldn't actually want what it needs , because they discuss only progress grind content for Months .
    Sometimes i read " and in episode 2-5 " there will be even more and higher Mobs
    T10, T20, T30.
    If that is what people expect and want for sandbox endgame content i can only laugh anf shake my head.
    It's already completely waste of time to visit T1-3 if you made it to t5.
    If a new landmass would be T10 + then Novia is a wasteland.
    Maybe they want to finance it this way and beging from scratch.
    But who will pay , who would like it if you have a PoT in Novia atm?

    The limitless system is the biggest limit i ever engaged.
    It's an interesting experience.
    Imho it has failed.
    See other Games what adjust levels and do level or Zone scaling?
    See other upcoming games who go the UO direction like LoA or see games like EvE where even a 3 Month Account can have a competetive fitting against people with Accounts 10 years old.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  15. mass

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    I'm imagining wading through a moat of honey. (j/k)
     
  16. Ristra

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    I'm going to stop right here with your post. I will go into more if you'd really like but at this point you've shown you are thinking of a specific style of PvP. There are many different styles of PvP and this list you have going here is going to destroy other styles.

    I'm not a fan of 100% of the different styles of PvP. But I can only suggest to Port what should be the focus for SotA. Until Port shows us what style is are making the focus I have to assume that open PvP is the way. If that's the case... level disparity and ganking is what Port expects.

    I can't believe this is the PvP Port is shooting for but till someone gives a statement otherwise, this is it.
     
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  17. Kara Brae

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    I don’t/can’t PVP but I’m nevertheless trying to understand the problem that you say needs to be addressed. The scenario sounds like a party went into a PVP zone unprepared. They were unlucky enough to be stalked/stealthed and killed by an expert PVPer. Some party members had PVP decks but hadn’t bothered to equip them.

    Is the problem that they were taken by surprise? Is there no way to make a stealthy player visible?

    What is it that needs to be fixed?

    I'm not contradicting anything you say (I know too little about PVP), I'm just trying to understand the issues.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  18. Waxillium

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    That encounter sounds fun. I’d pay the ransom as a thank you to that player for making a real event out of grinding for XP. They took the time to find you and stalk you and kill you. Now that’s service!

    The only annoying thing is that the ransom is completely out of proportion for the victim. They die in under a minute and it takes them an hour to grind out the loser fee. Strangely it’s semi fair to the PvPer who could have used all the preparation time to mine vs. bring you a live event.
     
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