Any news on phasing?

Reading this makes me wonder even more how the story they want to tell fits into the quests. The way the quests play out we need to "have blinders on and ignore the fact that ee think weare playing the same story if we see each other". That is exactly what is happening right now. That is what is happening when everyone rescues the child, when everyone kills the Lich King, when everyone finds out what is going on with the undead, when everyone brings the murderer to justice, when everyone has to find the one and only artifact...

The quests don't fit into the description of the story Richard Garriott and Tracy Hickman provided. I wonder what happend? Has the story changed? Has the concept changed? Didn't it work?

 

I think the key is to focus attention on the main story paths. Side quests are one thing, but the main story paths are where the impressions of the game will rise and fall. I would love to see some detailed LD feedback on those. My point is one of priorities right now...

 

Let's take the main quest of the Path of Courage:
The main quest begins with us getting an amulet from a dying knight we have to bring to his captain - Everyone meets the dying knight, everyone gets the amulet, everyone tells his captain that he died (which surprises her every time she hears it).

Or look at the beginning of the main quest of the Path of Love:
We already know about Charlotte but what about the letter, Edvard gives us? Everyone gets this letter and delivers the news about the undead attack. It is a surprise every time the leaders hear about it. Then they send us the Necropolis to find out what happened - everyone is sent to the Necropolis to bring back the news.

You know what I mean? Even the main quest does not align with the story Richard and Tracy talked about.

 

Also, from the SeedInvest page:

"REAL Choices
No game by Lord British is complete without a deep narrative and difficult ethical dilemmas, and Shroud of the Avatar is no exception. Each choice made by a player (as minor as giving a beggar a coin or as significant as assassinating a lord) will change the response of the game-world to that player. Should players choose to pursue the main narrative, they will find their virtues tested in the 100+ hours of gameplay of Episode I of Shroud of the Avatar."

The game world will respond to our choices?

For me this sounds like "phasing" or some other technology. But right now, nothing is responding.

 

I don't see them embracing with each other on the screen. Very not immersive. Both are saying ... to each other. I have to read it to see they embraced, Just like SotA.

 

That's exactly what I mean... it seems to conflict with the original vision. But this is the general discussion forum, and I am trying to encourage that kind of detailed feedback in the feedback forum. And not just the starter scenes, but the whole thing...

 

If you read what LD wrote in the original post the point wasn't the embrace, but seeing characters move and interact. And if you read my point about DOS2 not showing everything you'd be caught up in the discussion.

Have you played this quest is DOS2? I have, and experiencing it is a very different experience than SotA right now.

 

DOS2 has many cool quests, some are really challenging, for some you really have to think and what i like most you probably won't be able to finish all quests (depending on your actions).
And it is even more fun in multiplayer LAN

DOS2 quests beat SotA quests by miles!

 

I doubt it gets better
But if it is a multiplayer story, shouldn't this be adressed right from the beginning?
If there are multiple avatars and all are doing the same quests, I think there should be a mention about this. That there is something going on as everyone does the same tasks I do, rescues the same persons etc. The player should be wondering why this is the case and what is going on. Otherwise it is just confusing for the player and frustrating.

 

I will say that one of the ways it gets better is when people test through and make detailed comments. The community plays a major role in testing... generalized feedback doesn't have as much impact.

It's one thing to say, I don't expect the main story paths to live up to the vision, and quite another to say - ok, I've played through the paths and here is how the story doesn't live up to the vision. All assumptions may prove to be true, but they don't count in terms of reviews and feedback.

Consider a reviewer who watched the first 5 minutes of a movie and writes a scathing review. Their review may be full of accurate assumptions, but no one is going to give it any credit. That's the problem with surface level feedback here.

 

A passion play in one act: Great Expectations

Renowned Cat Skinner: Greetings all! Today I shall, as I have done in the past to great acclaim, skin for you a cat!
Audience of adoring fans: <great cheering and applause, the front of the stage suddenly littered with tossed coin>
Renowned Cat Skinner: Thank you! Thank you! I really appreciate it! And now to the Act!
[Renowned Cat Skinner flys into a flurry of motion] Today I am using method 2317A, a new method I've developed!
[flurry of motion continues for a while, and the suddenly stops. Renowned Cat Skinner holds aloft a skinned cat] And, Voila!
Audience of adoring fans: <gasps, and sighs of disappointment> How unsatisfying, last time he used method 234. 2317A is Poop! I demand that he switch back to the way he skinned cats before!
Renowned Cat Skinner: <stands on stage holding aloft a perfectly nicely skinned cat>

And... Scene. <curtsies>

 

Can I make a virtue request here? Can we try not to derail discussion about story/single player by the few who remain interested enough to dive into it? For the good of the player base, the good of testing, and the good of the game overall?

 

Teehee... feedback provided, ongoing effort But my perspective is outlandish (pun intended)

Each and everytime I was basically hit on the head and told what the devs are doing is exactly the contrary than what you just quoted in that wonderful post of yours, and everyone who could have defended me remained silent and nobody lifted a finger.

So I assume the problem is that I'm not the only one who received that particular treatment in the community, sadly

Especially that I know that RG and Tracy talked about perma-death mechanisms and other essential supporting function to their vision, and we're not seeing that happening anytime soon are we ?

I have hope... but there are major continuity problems with the Oracle and the Titans from my perspective, and I've studied, alot, maybe too much.

Maybe I'm even obsessive about it, replayed the ultimas and dreamed of it. lol

Not the most harmful obsession you will agree, but nonetheless maybe thats why I seem to be brushing certain people against the hair, if I wasn't the Avatar maybe that could pass as some form of mental deviance or insanity

Anyways, I have been more than willing since this started to be replaced by someone worthy, if the story can bring us there, I will be releived and live happily ever after, and THAT is the goal of this vision... Ascension.

So there in truth lies the continuity.

 

Indeed, in the spirit of your perspective there is much change that would have been required from the very beginning. For example titles... we have a kind of feudal system with taxes on land but its not rooted at all in the story.

Why is @BDF a baron ? Don't tell me he has gotten a high pledge, he could be a lord of the manor for what it means, right ?

That means he is showing humility, and has an idea of his role in the game.

Yet who is allowing BDF to be BDF ? Noone. There are no mechanics for ambiguous or negative alignement characters in our game.

Titles are just for show, I can be disrespectful to a lord and noone will even care, my hands are tied anyways what can I do that is worse, this is not a sandbox. So please consider it when you say we MMO fans have gotten what we want, a lord british game = sandbox.

Indeed the quests should have been designed with larger goals in scope, so that it makes sense that every avatar participates in it, can't save the same child from the same situation a million times...

I'm not saying there should be full fledged implementation of real titles in the game... I'm speaking of adding layers in which players who are so inclined to roleplay can combine with the dev lore and create something truly dynamic, I know it can be done without much manpower and I've seen many freeshard communities accomplish it with great celerity, sometimes even with a sad lack of GM participation.

We must not underestimate the power of the imagination of our players, in UO even with the frankenstein system EA put in place, people manage to keep on ignoring the problems of the game and make it ALIVE with cool blue fire in the hearth.

It is critical that we reach such a "vibe" here and that people stop focusing too much on details and start helping shaping up this vision indeed, because if each play a part in it, each has a say and each a unique perspective that should be considered sacred over all things.

 

Waaaait a minute, what do my crusty old eyes see there? FLAVOR TEXT in a new graphically advanced RPG ... to create atmosphere and enhance storytelling?!? Oh no but it can't be now can it? Hmmmmmm

see: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...eeds-to-learn-from-ultima-vii-dialogue.88186/
see also: my signature

 

That's a problem I see with a lot of RPers (in a lot of games), though. Instead of making a character that fits the world, they create characters that can't be supported by the game... and that's not something I'd be blaming the game for lacking.

If someone wants to be a duke or whatever, I'd rather they get into the role by the community (like "hey, that guy's a really cool dude and manages a guild. Let's call him a duke!") rather than being told that they are. Why can't they just be a regular joe like the rest of us? Being a duke or a baron isn't a character trait. Why can't they be themselves like the SotA's story is trying to encourage?

I love RPing but this kind of thing makes it messy.

I disagree. There's a lot you can do with how characters say things that you don't need to tell the players what is going on. Ultima VII is a good example of what not to do... right down to the font.

It's even worse when dialogue is enforcing events without my doing like:

Whatever happened to me standing 5 meters away from her? That ain't romantic; just infuriating.

Show, don't tell. If you can't show, then maybe it shouldn't happen.

 

They don't have the technology to "show" instead of telling. Right now it's tell or don't tell and they chose don't tell and don't show.

edit: also Ultima 7 and DDOS 2 bad examples? both two of the most successful RPGs of their respective times. For a good reason.

 

The technology to "show" has existed for more than a decade. I'd even argue that we've been able to "show" since the 8-bit era.

 

Then books do it wrong all of the time???

Quests tell a story. Even the quests in SotA try to tell a story. If they don't have the technology to show things then it is better to not even tell what is happening? Instead of at least telling us that the beggar is scratching his long beard while he whistles through his broken teeth we should look into a dead inanimate face that looks like everyone else's? Why is this better?

 

funny

in L.A Noir yeah. In SotA? Not so much.