Anyone knows what is the new artifact added in build 910?

Also, +5 meticulous? Does any serious miner even bother with meticulous?

 

Nope, and if I ended up getting one, I wouldn't use it while mining because of that.

Might put it on when I needed extra carrying capacity... but definitely not good for mining.

 

What I do not like is that we always have to pay off with some - (minus) stats.

 

no it states in the description that it only adds to what you have in heavy lifter skill to total out to 300%, that person may already get a 150% from heavy lifter

 

Valid interpretation, but still unclear unless better explained. But no matter, team doesn't have capacity to fix small things like this... hope the ones who get them find them useful.

 

The best games require choices and tradeoffs as one nears the end game. Not just more and more power.

In that regard, I think SOTA's design is on the right track. It just might need more opportunities to make those choices even more meaningful somehow.

My two cents.

 

LOL, mining meticulous is my only gathering GM.

 

I've got Meticulous Collection at 115. I've heard people say that it's worthless but I've no clue, figured more ore per node twas a good thing What's so bad about it?

 

Meticulous only nets one additional ore per round (and no additional materials like tin) but, unless you crit, you have to run through the full progress bar to get it. The time is better spent on the next node, where you again get the chance to get more than one ore. I dont recall who it was, but somebody did the work and figured out you get around 5-10% more per hour by skipping the meticulous. If you're just hitting nodes as you find them, then it's fine. But if you're someone who spends thousands of hours mining, meticulous collection just slows you down. Which makes it a weird choice for a bonus on a miner's ring.

 

All correct. And, in addition to getting less ore per hour and less extras like tin/nickel, etc... you also don't get extra crafting xp for each additional meticulous rounds. Therefore, you are netting much less XP per hour with high meticulous.

From a min/max standpoint... it's just a waste of time and crafting XP spent training that skill up.

I intentionally stop a meticulous round unless it's one of those "crit" swings that is almost instant.

 

You, my friend, have wasted a lot of crafting XP.

 

Only because it's been a long time...

It isn't something that's even possible to calculate without making considerations specific to the scene and node type. In order to know whether or not a specific meticulous collection is beneficial, you have to compare the gain per unit of time of the meticulous collection to the gain per unit of time with no meticulous.

Calculating the rate of gain of a specific meticulous collection is pretty easy, because there is 0 prerequisite time investment and the result is always the same. I forget the exact amount, but iirc, the rate of meticulous collection something like 650 base node units per hour. That's pretty good for a gold node, pretty bad for a cotton node, and something in between for things like iron and copper.

Calculating the rate of gain of whatever you're comparing meticulous too is a lot more complicated since it involves running around, fighting stuff, variance, etc. The easiest way is to simply sample hourly gains in a specific place with no meticulous skill and then compare the average gain to value of the 650 base units that you could get from an hour of meticulous collection.

One thing that's almost impossible to do is to draw conclusions from samples with meticulous collection. The reason for that is that when you are gathering, only a tiny fraction of that time is spent in meticulous collection. It would take an immense sample to actually be able to accurately measure the effects of a slightly different rate of gain for periods of a few seconds of time intermittently sprinkled throughout hours of play. There's not really much reason to even try to do that since the meticulous rate is very easy to calculate in the first place.

 

I can tell you this much...

I made the mistake of taking mining meticulous up to 110. I then saw a video that @Mac2 did of mining in Elysium Mines and spoke to him later about why he didn't use meticulous. I then set meticulous to untrain and have "unlearned" the skill.

Now, when I mine in Elysium Mines (mixture of copper and silver nodes) I get substantially more ore per hour, and substantially more XP per hour than when I had meticulous.

Of course, some of that might be related to my combat skills getting better and being able to kill the ghosts and satyrs faster now... but I believe most of it is related to skipping meticulous chances.

That's an opinion of someone who has been playing since R18 and has been an avid miner since I started playing this game.

So, calculate all you want. I see the results from trying it both ways and I'm happy to do without meticulous.

 

@Mac2 So I'm curious about this. I've been mining since R1 and understood meticulous potentially gave you extra ore from a single node. Increases the chances. Now we're hearing it's less? I haven't experimented with it. Guess I should have.

Sounds like a bug IMO.

Thoughts?

thanks!

 

Daxxe already explained it. Its not about what you get per node when your mining hard, its about what you get per unit of time like per hour. IF, you are running out of nodes and have to run really far to the next one, then using the matic to slow you down and giving them more time to spawn is good, but if the nodes are abundant matic will slow you down in total mats collected AND exp made per unit of time. You only get one, gold, silver, copper, iron for a matic swing where as your first swing on a tier 5 node can get you 1-3 silver gold and 1-2 iron copper with tin tungstun and nickle chances as well. I have not mined in a long time, so I dont know the spawn rates right now.

 

Everyone with an opinion on the subject is making a calculation though, right? It's just that most people are doing it wrong, or at least not in the best way.

Everyone intuitively understands that the less resources that are available in a scene, the more viable meticulous becomes, because the thing it's being compared to is less valuable. It's very easy to construct hypothetical situations where meticulous is good, and ones where it's bad. Somewhere in between those things is a line, and that line can't be determined with generalizations.

The line is determined by comparing the value of meticulous per time vs. the alternative per time. This is what people already do, just not in a very accurate way. It is very easy and accurate to determine the value of meticulous per time by simply looking at the amount of time consumed per meticulous and the yield. It is very difficult to determine the value of meticulous by trying to compare harvesting samples that are 99% identical, with the only difference being some negligible effect that kicks in for a few seconds here and there.

Fwiw, I think my opinion of meticulous is almost exactly the same as most of the people that I've argued about it with. I just think a lot of claims get thrown around that are not necessarily always correct.

 

Hehe... Sorry guys... I am actually laughing...

I don't agree or disagree with any of your opinions... I don't know...

What I'm laughing at is... The BMC, in true form, apparently cant get away from having our name on some hotly debated, and controversial, sh^t!

My apologies to those that don't like the ring. Your welcome to those that do.

 

Not so much a bug as a poorly thought out and implemented skill system.

At its heart, its very simple:

If you have as a GIVEN: a relatively rich mining scene, a well planned mining route to minimize travel time, and a way to quickly deal with NPC interruptions to minimize that delay

IF meticulous gave extra chances at all materials possible, and extra xp, per node per extra swing, then it would be worth it

as it only gives extra ore, and no extra xp, unless it is an immediate crit result, it is better to cancel the meticulous gathering attempt (or not have trained it in the first place) and mine another node, than to allow even a 4x+ meticulous chain to play out.

It is sad that the only gathering skills worth training are the base gather skill and the time reduction skill. Survey and meticulous are simply useless.

 

I don't see it that way.

 

If only the scroll of unlearning had a setting to unlearn to 100, 80, and 40. Wouldn't that be nice