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Are ghosts supposed to be immune to fire?

Discussion in 'Release 36 Bug Forum' started by Elwyn, Nov 19, 2016.

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  1. Elwyn

    Elwyn Avatar

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    11/19/2016 11:59 AM
    Title: Are ghosts supposed to be immune to fire?
    Reproduction Rate:
    Blocker? no
    User Specs:
    OS: Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (6.1.7601) 64bit
    CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2520M CPU @ 2.50GHz (4) System RAM: 16266
    GPU: NVIDIA NVS 4200M GPU RAM: 2258
    SotA.EarlyAccess.Win.64.509.Date.11.18.16
    Area: Novia_R2_Hills01_EtceterCragMines
    Area Display Name: Etceter Crag Mines
    Loc: (-3.8, -54.5, 16.7) (<--that's just where I parked myself while writing this)

    Details:
    When fighting ghosts in Etceter Crag Mines with adventurer level 65, 34 fire attunement, 347 skill points spent in fire magic, they are now kicking my butt like crazy. Part of the problem is trying to damage them. In R35 I could take on two ghosts before running out of focus, but now they are hard to damage and iIf I'm lucky, I can kill a single one solo before I run out of focus. Two is just too much because of all the HP drains.

    Note that I am on The Potato(tm) laptop today so that makes it worse because of the input-to-action lag being maybe 400ms or so. (It's real fun just trying to go around town without bumping into walls.) But if you look at the attached chat log, you'll see my real problem. The ghosts drain me and heal themselves constantly, while my attacks do very little if any damage. In particular, Immolation doing no damage? It's not like they can be out of range for that! If they were fire elementals I might accept this, but ghosts?

    Steps to Reproduce:
    Get down there and try to fight them, using fire arrow / searing ray for attacks, with immolation and ring of fire for additional DoT damage.

    Here is a bunch of stuff straight out of my chat log, no lines between the first and last were removed. This was when I checked my chat logs and realized how much damage I wasn't doing. The Fire Arrow damage seems to be low but I'm willing to accept that as normal DoT damage.

    [11/19/2016 11:55:12 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 22 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:12 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 2 points of damage from Fire Arrow.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:13 AM] Elwyn Moon is healed for 33 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:14 AM] Ghost is healed for 45 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:14 AM] Elwyn Moon is healed for 26 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:14 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 45 points of critical damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:14 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 3 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:15 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 2 points of critical damage from Fire Arrow.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:15 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:15 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 5 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:16 AM] Ghost is healed for 26 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:17 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 3 points of critical damage from Fire Arrow.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:17 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 26 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:17 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:18 AM] Ghost is healed for 26 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:18 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 6 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:18 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 26 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:19 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 4 points of critical damage from Fire Arrow.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:19 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:20 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 4 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:20 AM] Elwyn Moon is healed for 35 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:21 AM] Ghost is healed for 22 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:21 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 4 points of damage from Fire Arrow.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:21 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 4 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:21 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:21 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 22 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:23 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 4 points of critical damage from Fire Arrow.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:23 AM] Ghost is healed for 11 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:23 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:23 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 11 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:24 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 4 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:25 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 5 points of damage from Fire Arrow.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:25 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 7 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:25 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:26 AM] Ghost is healed for 17 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:26 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:26 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:26 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 17 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:26 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 3 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:27 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 6 points of damage from Fire Arrow.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:27 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 7 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:28 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:28 AM] Ghost is healed for 25 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:28 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:28 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:28 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 25 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:28 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 6 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:29 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 3 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:30 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:30 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:30 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:31 AM] Ghost is healed for 21 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:31 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 21 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:32 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:33 AM] Ghost is healed for 12 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:33 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:33 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 12 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:33 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:33 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:34 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:34 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:36 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:36 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:37 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:37 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:39 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing 7 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:39 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:39 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:41 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:41 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:41 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:41 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Ring of Fire.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:43 AM] Ghost is healed for 18 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:43 AM] Ghost is healed for 19 points of health.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:43 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 18 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:43 AM] Ghost attacks Elwyn Moon and hits, dealing 19 points of damage.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:43 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:44 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:45 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:45 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:47 AM] Elwyn Moon takes no damage from falling.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:47 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:47 AM] Elwyn Moon attacks Ghost and hits, dealing no damage from Immolation.
    [11/19/2016 11:55:49 AM] Elwyn Moon is healed for 33 points of health.
     
  2. Elwyn

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    More: it seems that the initial cast from Fire Arrow also does no damage. Only the DoT from it is doing damage. Searing Ray is doing apparently normal damage.

    This is with trying to kill the hallway ghosts just behind the quadruple breakable wall.
     
  3. Lazarus Long

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    From the R 36 release notes:

    Combat: We plan to refactor how Damage Types and Resistances work to better balance different weapon types, spell schools, and creature types against each other. This will also improve the variety of crafted items.
    • Magic Damage Types & Resistances: Starting in R36, there is now a more formal resistance system in place for players and creatures. Currently players can mostly gain resistances through gear, but skills and spells will appear in future releases to allow players to expand their resistances. The simplest way to describe how resistances work is to say they are Defensive Attunement. So if you have 50 Death Magic Resistance, that will counter the extra damage that a caster would get from having 50 Attunement. Finally, players who don’t want to use magic can have a way to resist casters! Creatures now also have Resistances. For simple, natural creatures, like bears and spiders, they will have a small amount of Resistance to all magic but generally be fairly easy to affect. Many of the more magical creatures have some very high Magic Resistances to specific schools. This means that if you were a player that only used a very limited set of skills on everything, you are likely going to have to change your strategy when fighting some creature types. As an example, Fire Elementals are almost completely immune to fire, and moderately resistant to all other types of magic except for water magic, which they have no resistances to. There are also a few creatures that are just highly resistant to most magic and will be difficult to kill now without the help of a weapon. For those who rely heavily on magic, this will make the game more challenging.
    • There will probably be things you used to be able to kill that you can no longer kill. This is expected and just know that all other casters will be facing the same challenges.
     
  4. Margaritte

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    Yes, Laz is right, @Elwyn. This is a thing now, haha. Magic resistances are in, and I believe, working as intended. See if you can reproduce that Fire Arrow not hitting for initial damage and report that separately if it's an issue.
     
  5. Elwyn

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    I also cause no damage from Ice Arrow and Obsidian Arrow. That doesn't sound like "very specific schools" to me.

    Again, the reason for the whole thread is to ask if ghosts are supposed to be resistant to fire magic. Sure, I'd expect a fire elemental to take no damage from fire magic, just as if I cast a death spell against a ghost, I would expect it to also do no damage. This shouldn't mean wholesale invulnerability from everything. My sun magic alignment is only 10, and both my searing ray and fire arrow are at 80 skill, so it shouldn't be a matter of magnitude here.

    I would also like to know if that drain spell they use is supposed to go through walls, because they will use it on you even after you go around a corner. They won't even bother to get in sight of you so that you can attack back. And I don't mean right as you go around the corner because you were in sight when it was cast, I mean they will keep casting it through walls until you get out of range. If that is not intended, I'll open up another bug report.
     
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  6. Margaritte

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    I will try to get some clarification on this issue for everyone, @Elwyn. I'm in the same boat as you, haha, still not knowing exactly what's what! It is the weekend though, so I can't promise anything quickly :D
     
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  7. Margaritte

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    Ok, so I could not find a dev to bother, but I did find a friendly member of the Combat Scrum who offered a shoulder to cry on. From what I understand, different undead have different resistances, and Ghosts specifically are a doozy, haha! It's sounding like this is all still in flux, but for now, the ghosts have 100% attunement to ice, fire, death and earth (not sure about water or air), so the only thing that's going to hit them for a lot of damage is sun and life magics, or melee. Hope that helps, @Elwyn :D
     
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  8. Lazarus Long

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  9. Elwyn

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    I still find it odd that ghosts, who have no corporeal body, are not resistant to physical attack by normal weapons. Oh well.
     
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  10. Oba Evesor

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    Certain creatures are highly resistant to all elemental magic. Earth, Water, Air, and Fire.
    For things like ghosts use Sun and Life (Searing Ray, Banish Undead). Elysium Illumination works, but not well.
     
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  11. Oba Evesor

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    Hmm, just looking at your combat log.
    One would think that if your Fire Arrow is doing DMG then your AoE's should be too. Even a small amount.
    @margaritte might wanna revisit this one once you have someone from QA on. I'll mention it in the Scrum.
     
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  12. Elwyn

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    Well, at least there's nothing to fight in that area except undead, so my undead deck works okay. Now I need to finally get BU up to 80 so that I can get rid of that last fire arrow.
     
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