Are People Here Really Ok With This Sort of Thing?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ice Queen, Feb 24, 2017.

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  1. mass

    mass Avatar

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    I want to give props to the Devs for letting this conversation stand. It is healthy, and I think many of us really appreciate it when @DarkStarr attempts to clearly explain their perspective even if some of us disagree with it.
     
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  2. Jaanelle DeJure

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    I am always fascinated to learn more about how things work on the inside. Thanks for sharing that additional information!

    I get the sense that players are often frustrated due to a perception that work toward putting things in the store is "taking away" from other things that are important to them. I'm not really sure how it all works myself, however I kind of assume that there are people on staff whose sole job it is to work on getting assets ready for sale in the store. Thus- a continual expansion of items available for purchase is actually a sign that that person (or people) are doing their jobs very well.

    Speaking for myself, I see the Add-On Store as a way for me to continue backing the project, and to demonstrate my support in-game. I'm going to continue spending money in the store so long as I keep finding something interesting there to buy. The worst thing they could do from that standpoint is to let the store go stale.

    We definitely wouldn't want players to be in the position of being ready to spend money in the store, but not finding anything they want to purchase. :oops:
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
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  3. Sean Silverfoot

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    I have no issues with them doing this. It's a smart use of resources and dev time IMO
     
  4. Blackghost

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    So, you're telling me that, the work done on that statue worth more than the game itself?
    $50 for a horse statue and $40 for the game on steam.

    Really?
     
  5. yarnevk

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    You do not understand how buy to play MMO with cash shops work, which despite kickstarter promises this game has clearly become that. The goal of buy to play is to get people into the game for what would be a few months of WOW suscription and less than the AAA price of a standalone game, but the devs have no hope of funding the game at that level. It is the goodies in the store that people want to buy that keeps them paying and sticking around for even more shiny things where cash shop games make their money. But at some point you need the DLC and expansions and will buy to play those as well. The reality is many people spend more in cash shops then they ever would have in a subscription model, supporting those that play for less than a suscription.

    ESO has a similar biz model that replaced monthly subscription very successfully. You can easily spend as much on the store as you can on the game, although their store is a much better value than here, that is simple economics from them having millions of players and hundreds of staff rather than hundreds of players and dozens of staff - the player vs. staff ratio makes their store more affordable.

    Nobody thinks that these goods are not profitable for Portalarium, do the math on the dev post, clearly there will be more buyers than the devs spent hours on releasing them into the game, and surely they paid for their resale license so it was also not free to begin with. But as long as management is reinvesting the profits back into the game by paying devs, and is long as there are people willing to support the game, this method still works. The reality is without the cash shop this game would have already folded because they have earned 4x what the kickstarter did from it. The game was funded on the principle of using Unity to make it affordable to develop with limited devs because of all the available assets that it has, so nobody should be offended that that is indeed what is happening with this horse. Had they used an experienced 3D artist that could have knocked that out in a few hours themselves, or used a inexperienced modder that will take hours to port that asset should not change you wanting it in your yard or not to show support for the game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  6. Blackghost

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    While I kinda agreed with you, I see that sell as being dishonest with the us. All of us are here to support the game, to support LB. And doing something like this, for the people who bought your game to support you while being in EA is really a bad move.
    This is far from being ethical. Getting something free, do some work here and there. And then selling it for $50? Sorry, but that's what I called being greedy with your community who support your work in all honesty.

    And by doing something like this, they will lose sales.
     
  7. Blackghost

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    Then you don't know how businesses works.
    And pls, don't compare this to ESO, who's not in EA. Who's been around for years.
    We're talking about people supporting a game to be made.

    Anyways, I'm sure I'm not alone to have that thought.
     
  8. Koldar

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    I completely understand that people want SotA to withstand the ages. I do too. That's why I'm still here. What does it take to have a game sustain for a long period of time? First, the company must remain viable. How many items have to be sold at $50 each compared to how many items might be sold for $5 each to pay for a month of dev time? That's a simple question of mathematics. However, when you look at the PR side of selling items for $50 vs selling items for $5, things get a little more complicated. How much negative press is generated? How many people does that deter from making the initial purchase?

    I really don't care how they acquire assets - that's their business. How the game is perceived should be everyone's concern. A Lord British game has never had such an unsightly amount of fluff at those prices. I know I certainly cannot tell my friends that this is a "Lord British" game. It just doesn't look like it from the outside. The sooner they realize they need someone to exclusively focused on PR and Economics, who understands those fields of study well, the better it will be for the perception and longevity of the game...IMO.
     
  9. Burzmali

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    When you can sell consistently sell $50 digital models to a group of faithfuls, why would you need more sales? Three months from now they'll reskin those statues in black and sell them as Obsidian steeds and three months later they'll be reskinned in white and sold as Marble steeds, and the group of users that have to have everything will continue to open their wallets as they always have.
     
  10. King Robert

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    I pay to play this game, because if I did not pay (and keep paying) we have no game to play.
     
  11. yarnevk

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    I know very well how biz works, having run my own biz, done my own books, charged my own customers for intangibles for hundreds of dollars an hour that cost me little time to do that would take them forever to do themselves. I also funded my brothers pizza biz, when you buy a liter of Coke for too many bucks while picking up your pizza, bet you did not know that the coke fridge was free, the Coke cost him pennies, and he gets paid to go to the pizza convention ever year by coke. He makes more money selling Coke for tremendously less work than he does making and selling pizza.

    The devs of ESO would disagree that their game was made when they delivered it. It was lacking house, thieves/assassin guilds, lootable objects, and prevented open world play that are all characteristics of Elder Scroll games. They knew it needed years more development but released it anyways to make more money to fund development, and that bad release cost them much of their initial player subscriptions, forcing their hand into cash shops which they had said they would never do. It really is only this year where they can see the game has become what it should have been at release. Sure they never called it early access, but the reality was it was undeveloped with a poor vision, and the devs knew it and rewrote much of the game systems, and the cash shop is what funded keeping it alive.

    The reality is even if devs developed the assets themselves they would still make more than it cost to develop as there will always be more customers than the hours it cost to make them, but they would not be able to satisfy demand and funding would fall.

    Of course boycott the game because it is not free or not a subscription game on the principles of it should not have a cash shop. But don't boycott a cash shop for it's very nature that the production costs are much much less (regardless of bought or made assets) than total selling cost. It is the Coke in the pizza shop, you do not need to buy it there, is much cheaper to buy and consume elsewhere, but many will buy it simply because it is there, and both the seller and the provider of the asset knows they will both make money.
     
  12. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Actually getting something for (almost) free and making people buying it for 50 bucks is the major league of business.
    Just saying.

    @ topic: Yeah all good here.
     
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  13. yarnevk

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    Actually he is on record as saying he got the idea from the crazy RMT pricing of UO rares and housing, a player development they never anticipated. Portalarium was formed not to create SOTA, but a collectibles social game with the cash shop that is a given in those platform games. RG is a crazy collector himself who pays who more than things cost. So it should not come as a surprise that the kickstarter was full of collectibles and housiing for crazy prices, the only surprise would be them having said that there would never be a microtransaction store (which they seem to be qualifying now as they meant for 'in-game P2W PVP')
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
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  14. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    I'm going to quote Starr's previous post, in case it gets lost here as the discussion moves along. Please know that comparing the cost of an item on an addon store is vastly a different camp of consideration than that cost of what Starr outlined. The cost of integration and support, combined with the fact that it's a piece of enjoyment for those who purchase it (and thus those who help to keep the game on its feet) as opposed to those who just see the $ label, should not be viewed upon as a negative. I ask that everyone please take the whole picture into account before judging how we go about making this game happen at all.
     
  15. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Hrmmm... it seems the thread was stealth moderated.
     
  16. mercster

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    Mmm, no, I am not here to support LB. I am here to support the game he is producing. :)
     
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  17. Koldar

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    LOL. True. But at $50 a pop, i'd hardly call them microtransactions. ;)
     
  18. yarnevk

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    they could call them macrotransactions....
     
  19. Ice Queen

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    That's another problem with the items in the add-on store. Many items are just as generic as the items in game and will just be resized or reskinned later, so no reason to buy the items for exorbitant prices. Theres just nothing in the store that's worth anymore than $1-$25 to me, so since it's overpriced and generic, I don't feel compelled to buy anything. I really hope they hire someone that has created an MMO store before or an economist that knows how the in game economist system should work and help with the items and pricing with their store. :( I have spent lots of money in Wow and GW2 and could always find new things I liked buying, but for one reason or another I can't see buying much in the Sota store. :(
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  20. Canterbury

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    At the end of the day, how many people out there think a $50 statue is good value? Keep that figure in your head. Now how many of those will buy multiple items at that price this year? Keep that figure in your head.

    Now, of those people who are left, how many of them will continue that behaviour long term? How many statues, houses, airships, whatever, can one person buy? Everyone has a breaking point at some stage.

    So you say, "play or not" and someone might really enjoy playing SotA, and even want to play it long term, but could be sitting back today and pondering how long the game might last if this is how revenue is raised.

    Because, aside from that add-on store, what have we got? The box price? It's a one-off and I'm not sensing any influx of people even with the game in persistent mode. Revenue raising should be a smart SotA fan's #1 concern.
     
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