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Astronomy (The new sky)

Discussion in 'Release 19 Feedback' started by Miracle Dragon, Jul 8, 2015.

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  1. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    Release 19 introduced a new virtual night sky to the game. Now is your chance to give your first impressions of this still developing feature! So early in development, this is when your feedback matters most!

    Obviously i know this is a feature that's still being worked on, so any gripes that it shouldn't do this, or should do that which is already planned in development, great! I'm just trying to have a good forum for feedback and input. ;-)

    -Maybe one of the moons could be a space station, or have a space station on it (which may be visited some time in a future episode)
    -The stars need to rise and set, showing us where the North Star is (the fixed star that doesn't rise or fall), and showing that New Britannia is in fact rotating, and not being orbited itself by the sun. A world that doesn't rotate would not have winds or cloud patterns, would it?
    -Also, the moons look so big, will we see any tidal patterns? I'd love a tide that goes in and out everyday!
     
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  2. Alexander

    Alexander Avatar

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    I'm going to suggest that all of the celestial objects presently in the sky are placeholders. I will wait and see how this evolves over the next few releases.
    Also, I brought this up last year, but the shattered moon needs more depth to it as it looks a bit flat. I hope that at some point in the future they give this more attention.
     
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  3. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    In the R18 Postmortem, I asked about the size of the planets, and Richard said they were the size and composition they wanted. So I assume that means they probably won't change overly much. However, they do map nicely to the planets from Ultima, so I'm ok with that.

    I believe they are going for a geocentric model of the system. That would mean that, while New Britannia is rotating (and perhaps orbiting the sun), the other "planets" are orbiting New Britannia. Still, the stars would need to rotate seasonally, and I believe that is part of the plan. The star image itself needs to be a higher resolution, as it is blurry already.
     
  4. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    Perhaps some of the larger pieces in the debris of Daedalus could slowly spin in random directions? With a little lighting that could cause some nice shimmering effects we need in the night sky. ;-) It looks like not all the planets have obvious looking phases going on yet, that will help the 3D effect too, I think.


    The geocentric model is fine for the 'planets', we'll just call them properly, moons or satellites. The stars should rotate daily, and the night sky in summer should be opposite the night sky in winter. I look forward to seeing the model working properly, and reflected in the moondial as we use it. :D It's all very exiciting!
     
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  5. Solstar

    Solstar Avatar

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    The entire premise behind a geocentric "solar system" (if it can even be called that) is the all the celestial bodies within the system must revolve around a planet (rocky planet to be exact). Even the star that normally should be at the center revolves around the planet in a geocentric model.

    So the question we should be asking, since it was explicitly confirmed that the game is set within the Milky Way, how could this happen in the same universe with Newtonian Physics, Relativity, and Quantum Physics? What are the ramifications of such a model?

    The first issue I see is that the distance the sun needs to be in order for the planet to absorb enough heat to make liquid water severely limits the possibly of any other true planets in the system. Gravity dictates that the larger bodies will attract each other with greater force, and now that the immensely massive hydrogen ball has to share cramped quarters with the outer solar system, it's only a short (cosmologically speaking) matter of time before the sun does one of two things. It vacuums up everything out there, or forces the smaller (though still massive) celestial bodies to again revolve around it, likely in exaggerated elliptical orbits, as they "fall" past the sun, and likely directly toward our puny little rocky planet.

    The second issue. There needs to be a MASSIVE force being exerted by the planet in order to hold a star in its orbit. When I say MASSIVE, I mean orders of magnitude more massive than natural gravity. Does this force create relativistic effects like gravity, such as time dilation? If so, why does time move so much faster in Novia than on Earth? In such a powerful gravitational well, to the outside observer, events and time itself seem to grind to a halt. So, clearly, this MASSIVE force is not gravity at all. It physically can't be, and still hold up to even passive scientific inquiry. So what is this new force? Can the answer simply be "magic"? Is the field created by this force weakened as it gets closer to the planet so that we aren't all crushed into a cue ball sized ball of neutrons? Is that what caused the moons to collide, a fluctuation in this massively powerful magical field?

    I've got more, but I could go on for hours. I'll be back if this thread picks up some real astrophysics steam. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
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  6. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    How was this "confirmed"? The only thing i can think of it the presence of the Vanduul weapon, which frankly can be discounted as it is at best an Easter egg, and could easily have been brought through a gate.
     
  7. Solstar

    Solstar Avatar

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    Because we were explicitly told the star field in the distance was the Milky Way. It was mentioned by Richard in the R18 post-mortem at 1:26:45.

    And not only is New Britannia in the Milky Way but it is relatively close to Earth, by galactic standards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
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  8. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I went back and listened to that, and it is an image of the Milky Way, but has been adjusted with stars in different positions, etc. So despite Richard's comment that it is in the "general proximity", there is no real way that New Britannia is part of our universe. Being in the same "plane of existance", so to speak, doesn't make any sense in context of what happens between the Lunar Rift, or how magic can work.

    All I'm taking from that comment is that they based the skybox texture on an image of the Milky Way, which is kind of a no-brainer. What else are you going to base the sky on? Even the skybox in Ultima 9 is based on photos of the night's sky from Austin.

    Quite so, I'm looking forward to seeing the full starfield. And yes, in this context, the celestial bodies are just smaller satellites in more distant orbits.
     
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  9. Womby

    Womby Avatar

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    The laws of physics do not apply at all in SotA. Why? Because magic. Once you accept magic as reality, then all bets are off, and you can fashion whatever world you want. SotA creates its own universe, with its own rule set. Those rules may not make a lot of sense to those more familiar with our own universe, but that is of no importance. What does matter is whether SotA's rules are internally consistent, and given the presence of magic that should be easy to accomplish.
     
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  10. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    So, since astronomy affects magic (enchantment, etc), will it only take into account what is currently visible over Novia? For example, from Starr's post:
    If the constellations have rotated so Chaos is not visible, will it still track when Deceit enters it? Similarly, in future Episodes, will the skybox differ in those region as a different arc of the sky might be visible?

    Will there be an alignment every 800 years?

    One thing we will need to track eventually is how long each satellite takes to make a full orbit, what the star visibility change is, and what all of the various "mystic" constellations are. I'm sure additional constellations will be noticed by the community eventually.

    I'd be willing to make an orrery in Unity, if we get the skybox as a Dev+ asset!
     
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  11. Solstar

    Solstar Avatar

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    I'd like to point out that he also said that they repositioned some stars to show that we weren't in the same exact position and that if you look really closely you could see the magellanic cloud, which exists squarely in this universe.
     
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  12. Solstar

    Solstar Avatar

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    The stars are repositioned for the exact reason that we would be seeing all these from a different perspective even several hundred light years away from Earth.

    Why would Richard go to such obvious lengths to tell us we were seeing the Milky Way, point out descriptive features, and have that look on his face like he is revealing an exciting piece of lore to us, just to be mundane and only be using it as a model?

    Just because magic exists on New Britannia and not (apparently) on Earth is not "proof" of anything.

    I think your assessment is incorrect.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
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  13. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I guess we will agree to disagree
     
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  14. Solstar

    Solstar Avatar

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    Glad to see Richard confirmed my interpretation. The difference in time, though, was one aspect I did not consider. So, that's pretty cool to think about as well.
     
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  15. Beaumaris

    Beaumaris Avatar

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    Because for those enlightened enough to see it, there is quite a secret in the stars veiled in lore. In the real world, and hopefully in the game :)
     
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  16. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    So if we portal to NewBritannia, and then take a spaceship back to Earth, we 'could' wind up on planet of the apes! :O
     
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  17. Solstar

    Solstar Avatar

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    Shenanigans. All Charlton Heston did was travel at relativistic speeds for a short period of time. No need for portals to travel to the future. The movie Interstellar hit the nail on the head there.

    If the portal to New Britannia was also a portal to a younger timeline, then that sets up all sorts of ballyhoo. First, find out how far back in time you are by studying the star positions. Then, set up a high intensity laser device aimed at Earth that can transmit any type of data you want. Keep it running for hundreds or thousands of years with Oracle tech, and have it turn on at the exact moment you need to start transmitting data so it has enough time to cover the distance to Earth when scientists turn their eyes to the sky with devices capable of detecting it.

    Start transmitting all the recorded global disasters that will happen one month before they happen. Instructions on the importance of lowering carbon emissions. Then, right before you are born, inductions on how to find you and kill you so the paradox loop never closes and all of reality instantly vaporizes...

    Ok, maybe not the last part. Paradox is probably important.
     
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  18. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Ok, so I guess Richard has spoken. I don't like it, but ok.
     
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  19. Solstar

    Solstar Avatar

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    It seems more provocative to me to be near Earth in the Milky Way, but I know some folks like to draw clear distinction between reality and works of fiction, and of course everyone in between.

    With that said, I'm curious to know more about how the planetary system for New Britannia developed.
     
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  20. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    You mean how it it was developed, for the game, or in-world historically developed? Because game development wise, the planets are the same as have existed since Ultima V, just with different names. You can even compare the colors and shapes against the orrey in Ultima VII, and find a great amount of correlation.

    As for how a earth body planet could develop ten satellites, survive two of those crashing together, and not have wild tidal activity... well, I doubt we will get much of that. Handwavium magicka.
     
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