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Bludgeon Weapons - Staff vs Wand Dillema

Discussion in 'Release 51 QA Feedback Forum' started by Elrond, Feb 14, 2018.

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  1. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Well there is no dillema currently as we all know none uses staffs ... but wands. Why ? Because staffs are heavily penalized vs wands . I think the main weapon of a mage should be a staff and those who wish to combine magic with something else can turn to wands... like 1 sword and 1 wand or 1 wand and a shield so on.

    The Stats for Staff vs Wands :

    Problem 1
    Atunnement on Staff :
    [​IMG]
    Attunement on wands :
    [​IMG] x2 wands = 54

    This is a big problem and one of the issues none uses staff because attunement is very important and 18 points difference matter alot when deciding what weapon to choose.

    Problem 2 :

    Enchantment on Staff :
    [​IMG]

    Enchantment on wand :
    [​IMG] x 2 = 8.2 % Life Effectiveness

    Wands win again.

    So why not just allow a Staff to have same values as 2 wands ? Let it become primary weapon for those who wanna be a pure mage...and let wands be the alternative for those who prefer a more combo style like i have already enumerated at start of the post.
     
  2. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    I totally agree with this, I prefer using a staff so I stuck to that, but I'll admit that the fact that 2 wands is always better than a Staff is bad. It shouldn't be, considering you have to "control" these 2 wands, instead of "controlling" just 1 staff.
     
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  3. Pawz

    Pawz Avatar

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    If staff is always going to be weaker than wands it should at least be a decent bludgeon weapon to make up for it.
     
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  4. Kain Darkmoor

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    I like the idea of the staff being useful in more melee hybrid build. Perhaps they could accomplish this by allowing the staff to receive both melee and spellcasting masterworks?
     
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  5. redfish

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    This seems like a roundabout way of addressing the issue.

    First of all, wand effectiveness should be limited in offhand for more than one reason.
    From an earlier post -->
    "
    ...maybe it would make sense to make wands function differently than orbs, rather than them being functionally the same thing, which they seem to be.

    For instance,
    Staves and wands could be seen as foci or channels, which add + Attunement and offhand staff/wand/etc. *would not* be effective and disrupt the attunement of the foci your main hand.
    Orbs can be seen as wells or repositories, which add + % Attunement or xAttunement and an offhand orb *would* be effective but disrupt the attunement of an orb in your other hand.

    So you might use a single-hand wand/staff/etc. or a single-hand orb, but dual-wielding two of the same category would not be effective, while dual-wielding two of different categories would be effective.
    "

    Second, staffs should really be polearms. This would give advantages like defenses to the mage. Some skills of the polearm school, like puncturing, pulling, etc would be inapplicable, but I feel they need to set up a system to disable certain skills for certain weapons anyway. See Thoughts on weapons and shields.

    I feel just doubling the ability of staffs would just be putting a bandaid instead of changing some more fundamental things that can make this function better.
     
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  6. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    My opinion is probably going to make people mad, but I think wands and staves are simply foci for magic. Therefore, using two wands makes no sense.

    Making it so wands cannot be dual wielded would also solve this dilemma. You then have the choice of using a staff for slightly more attunement, or a wand if you want to use a offhand weapon or a shield.
     
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  7. Kain Darkmoor

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    I also think limited wands to primary and creating an entirely new offhand magical equip, such as a magic orb or a spellbook could also address the issue and be a viable solution.
     
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  8. kaeshiva

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    I dislike limiting wands to primary; I like to run around with a mainhand weapon and an offhand wand for example.
    I think the most sensible solution would be to just increase the enchant power on a 2h, much in the same way that its higher on larger armor pieces than on smaller.
    Of course what will probably happen instead is that 1h will get nerfed.
    Oh well.
     
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  9. Cryodacry

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    This issue also exsists with the disparity between Dual Wield vs 2h Melee wepons. Stats / Masterwork potency needs to be addressed for all 2h weapons in the game ... to possibly included ranged attack which could always use some more love.
     
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  10. Curt

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    I would suggest that a wand gives a bonus to one school of magic and dual wielding wands work but if same school of magic it don't stack
    While staffs should have the bonus vs all schools of magic instead.
     
  11. CatweazleX

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    If the tooltips telling the truth...
    With a stave/staff you have a free hand, that should add -10% fizzle chance.

    This free hand can also be used to add more power to stave users. Mages that do not want to use any weapon have two free hands, while dual wand users do not have a free hand.
    One can add attunnement and effectiveness (the things that can be enchanted) bonus to the free hands. With every weapon wielded this bonus got less.

    On the other side, a simple crafted stave has double the value of the wand because it uses two heartwood/straps. Why enchanting act differently?

    The bludgeon school is a good school for staves. Fullmages usually prevent melee, but may staves get a wider range and an improved parry value compared to wands.

    In my opinion, if someone wields two weapons he/she wants a two-handed fighter, this decision should give more power in melee combat but reduced/no additional power in magery combat.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  12. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    The enchant is '' broken''...the masterwork works fine for example you can get 8% spell dmg on a staff or 4% on a wand ..so no problems with masterworks.
     
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  13. CatweazleX

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    i can not enchant, yet. Edited the post to remove masterwork.
    Glad to hear that masterwork works as intended, so i can keep my staves :)
     
  14. Elnoth

    Elnoth Avatar

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    Has this been bug reported? Seems strange MW work one way and enchants work differently
     
  15. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    @Elrond i am not using a staff or wand.
    Hence my question: would buffing the atunment a little bit and giving the staff better secondary stats make it worthwhile? I would imagine you would do better in a meele with a staff than with a wand. Some nice Def stats maybe?
     
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  16. Kpopgurl

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    Same problem on weapon enchants and masterworks. It needs rebalance.
     
  17. Elrond

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    Not sure its a bug.
    If a staff cant have the stats of 2 wands or something else that matches 2 wands in power none will use staff.
     
  18. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Well, i am just trying to find a way to make it different but still valid.
    If it just has the same stats as 2 wands....whats the point of using it?
     
  19. Elrond

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    for the extra mellee dmg ?
     
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  20. Kpopgurl

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    Staffs should cost double the enchant mats etc just like 2hswords etc should to be equal with 1 hand.

    However the effect should be bigger on two handed. Because dual wield gets you new skills and more possible variety.

    There is still a lot of imbalance in all aspects for so long now :( people got so used to it.. i hope they change it though as new players wont like that at all.
     
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