Broken Combat System

This argument would probably be a lot simpler if I could be made aware of the average amount of skill points someone is going to have after grinding like mad before it's pointless to continue. Also how many trees could these points fill? Lets assume we skip the 20 point abilities and focus on the innates and the lower level abilties. Could you literally fill out the lower half of every tree? Could you completely fill every tree?

How far can you actually get right now?

(Not provoking btw, actually interested in knowing. Just read it back and it sounds blunt, but it's not intentional )

 

We could probably calculate the total number of points you can get by level 80.. but it's pretty moot just now until all the skills are in.

At that point we get to balance skill effectiveness, skill costs and points per level etc, etc.

Personally, I think Earth, Sun and Moon innates should all be reworked. The question then is what should they do. Those in particular need to be balanced against combat damage, armor and spell effects, stats.. It's just too much to speculate on until we actually get to work on it.

Just about the only thing we can be really sure on is the current state. Which is Earth innate skills are either too powerful, or too easy to obtain (or both). Sun and Moon will likely be the same for their first interation.

One possible solution is requiring these particular innate skills to either have special equipment requirements, or to specifically require you not be using certain requirements.

Here's a thought or two and I might suggest them in another thread for a more focused conversation. These innate skills might function similiar to combat stances where you have to activate them.

Another idea is that armor reduces the innate skill's effectiveness in the same way it effects fizzle chance. You can invest in more focus for example to reduce (but not eliminate) this effect but it means that anyone who takes these skills will have to really invest in magic related skill to make it worth while.

 

See, I don't know about the effectiveness thing.

The point of taking the Earth Innate is taking less damage. Assuming it was balanced, it would be a nice complimentary skill for a warrior.

Although I suppose this would technically be a way to limit your "skill points" as taking the earth innate as a warrior would be pointless. But I would rather you had more choice and less to spend rather than a lot to spend but less choice.

 

But right now though there's absolutely no reason why anyone shouldn't take it. We want to avoid everyone "min/maxing" their build. I can tell you this. If the game launched with Earth Innate skills the way they are presently.. I would telling everyone in my guild to take them regardless what type of character they played.

 

Totally on board with balancing them. But I just think they should remain a choice and not a niche pick.

In my "perfect world" (in the sense that it's only perfect for me ^^) you'd get enough points to completely fill 3-4 trees. At the same time, you could only unlock so many tiers. So if there were 5 tiers per tree, you could unlock 20 tiers total. Maybe 3 in one tree, 2 in another, 5 in another 3.

So you could dip around, but the deeper into a tree you go, the more you lock out the other trees. Then innates could generally be near the end of trees, for those who fully specialise. Maybe some weaker tier of the innate earlier on for the "dippers".

I mean, if you assumed people would fully skill 4 trees, that would still be over 1,300 different tree combinations with ~15 skills. And we'd probably have more skills, and we wouldn't be counting those who dipped into other skills too. That's plenty of unique snowflakeyness for me, with a limit and a method for withholding too many powerful abilities.

Then yeah, a system like your decay one to allow you to swap around without it being instant.

And I'm getting very off track. I'd say the numbers on the innate probably just need lowering. It could even be a timed buff after using any earth skill rather than always up, so a full earth specialist would benefit most, but anyone dipping for it could still use it, but probably not as efficiently.

 

The key is making them a choice and not an indirect necessity. This is why I included the idea of further investing in skill to reduce the effects of heavy armor.

 

It isn't broken just not working the way you want it to.

Level 70 vs level 20 really yeah you knew oyu didn't have a chance but kudos for trying LoL.

You already stated the problem, not broken just he knew how to setup a Deck that can handle PvP you don't know how to.

This will ALWAYS be a problem as PvPer will use whatever works!!! Always have and always will, and if they can cheat (which isn't the case here) hey will.

Again this isn't broken, just not what you expected :-(

 

The design is broken. I expect it to be exactly what it is. I know how to build a deck as well as anyone. Thanks for your valuable feedback.

 

Looks right to me- you really want a level 29 to be able to have a shot vs a level 70? The experience difference is huge. I was surprised you could damage him at all.

 

I want a game based more on skill and less on who could stand around in the same spot for hours killing stupid AI.

I want a game where it matters what weapons and armor you're using. We have a player driven economy.

I want a game where you don't get to level 70 and say "well I guess I win now".

If this really looks right to you, I would suggest you to take another look at what you're advocating.

 

Actually I would remind people that the difference isn't supposed to be THAT huge. A handful of low characters should still have a shot at taking down someone of high level. That's always been a design goal that the power difference not be exponential.

Now 1 to 1 with a 40 level difference? Ok the low level is probably toast.. but when the high level isn't even wearing any armor.. some damage should still be dealt.

 

I have not advocated anything and I am not going to debate. The combat system is not done.

 

In my experience, thus far, the combat seems relatively "passive." You get bonuses that mitigate damage from armor and skills, but nothing that really involves blocking, countering or the like. Parry, for example, shouldn't give you a resistance damage; it should give some kind of evasion bonus to outright dodge the next attack or increase some block ability for 10 seconds, etc. Same for the Light Armor Dodge skill. Perhaps these things are planned, but the descriptions so far - even for the ones that aren't in game yet - allude to more resistances, whether they be buffs or innate skills, and less to active abilities to disregard attacks.

Additionally, straight up resistance (in this sense, negating damage directly) should be percentage based for these innate abilities, not actually taking my 20 damage hit and making it 5 because of -15 resistance. This is how it looks to me and performs in game; if this isn't how it works, it certainly isn't how it feels. If it was percentage-based, then it's still useful but allows damage to actually get through, not to mention the percentages would only take off 2-3 damage for lowbie hits while blocking out 10-15 damage (or more) from higher level hits. It simultaneously allows lowbies some more power while staying effective against higher-end attacks.

That's just an observation of resistance, as it seems to be the primary example. Needless to say it's still in alpha, but I agree that if things are going to get better they need to be implemented or brainstormed now before we get too far along in game design.

 

It's always been a design goal for the game NOT to work like that. Having a higher level is not supposed to be an auto-win and the team has always advocated higher level giving you more options rather than more raw power. So, by their own metrics, this would be a problem.