Can we JUMP? (Dev) Replied

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by RelExpo, Jun 26, 2013.

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  1. RelExpo

    RelExpo Avatar

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    *Edited this post because sometimes all some people read is the first post and a few responses*
    This is something I haven't seen in any demo yet, as I know it's still early in development BUT it is something that I haven't seen asked it...

    Will our characters be able to JUMP in-game? The question might sound a bit *meh* but it's actually something that has been itching at me for some time. In most Ultimas and Ultima Online, you could not jump, in GW1, you could not jump. Most "modern" MMOs allow you to jump, but I would like some developer clarification.

    I posted a reply to "Avoid Dexterity puzzles" because I would actually enjoy seeing some sort of platforming in SotA. Be it jumping or climbing, something that allows the player to keep trying at it and to find new areas/treasures. There can be good reason to have spots to jump and climb to that are available to everyone. It'd be nice to add a skill that allows you to access different places... climb vines, climb rock wall, climb snowy slope, climb walls, etc. to kind go along with Umbrae's suggestion.

    TBH I wouldn't mind some sort of jumping puzzles/areas. I'm not as dexterous as I used to be in my gaming prime, which I've noticed playing newer games, but there's something about the angst to keep going at it until I can beat it and completing it gives me a great sense of accomplishment.

    A lot of us know how well platforming worked in Ultima 8: Pagan though... but this SHOULD be much more refined and worked out in SotA, kind of like the Radio Towers in Far Cry 3. Some of these Radio Towers have what I like to call "Trust Jumps", where you see the item marker for a jump and the ability to climb up, which are strands of rope hanging off the ledge, but it looks like you can't make it. You have to trust that if you run and jump, you'll "hit" the marker and climb up. There are also instances where you have to duck down under broken framework and maneuver around them.
    1. JUMPING. I want to be able to jump up and down for no reason, if I'm waiting for someone to hurry up or if I see a rock I want to JUMP over. Moreso, I'd like to see some jumping to gain access to new areas. I do NOT want it like GW1 or UO where you couldn't jump for nothing! Blah!
    2. DUCKING. Perhaps you want to get out of line of sight from an attacker, or you want to duck down and inspect something closer.
    3. CLIMBING. Ladders, ropes, vines, pipes, etc. We should be able to climb up on things.
    4. SWIMMING. I truly dislike diving down into deep water in video games (but love it IRL odd huh?) but swimming should be available and offer access to new areas.
     
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  2. knoxiTV

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    Movement, the fluidity and variety of it is an important aspect of creating an enjoyable experience for any game with a vast environment that requires the user to traverse it.

    Jumping, height variety terrain, building and objects ... should at the *very least* be present.

    I to would like some Developer clarification on whether this will be present in SotA, but I'm hoping for more than just jumping (crouching, sneaking, running, sprinting, climbing, swimming), and an environment that responds to these things (trees and thick foliage that slows movement, ledges that can be climbed, gaps that can be jumped and chasms that can be cleared with a bit of a run - maybe) to create a world that is enjoyable to explore on an interactive level and not just visually or for the sake of combat and picking things up.
     
  3. Umbrae

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    I think most old Ultima fans have a stigma against jumping. :)

    I don't mind jumping for realism but would more interested in stuff like @knoxiTV suggested to include climbing, swimming, crouching, etc. However, I do not want anything that requires real world dexterity. This is an RPG and my personal opinion is your ability to do something in-game should be related to your in-game character. I expect to sweat from stress of an encounter: not from being the fastest to push a button.

    *runs off to the "Avoid Dexterity puzzles" thread*
     
  4. Luciferase

    Luciferase Avatar

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    Sounds like it could open up a whole area of new types of puzzles. One example that comes to mind is from the movie Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where he has to jump across the a section of flooring that has Latin lettering on individual squares. The idea is that he must spell out the word Jehovah (he figured out from a "quest" he had been on prior), which, in Latin stars with the letter "I" (Iehova). Needless to say he steps on the letter "J" block first, floors gives away...and he nearly "eats it"...But it's Indie, so he lives... ;) I always thought that was a great and creative puzzle/trap.

    Of course in our case...it would be some form of runic lettering. :D
     
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  5. PrimeRib

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    Jump all you want.

    I don't care if there's a place you can jump to. But gw2 put in some "optional" jumping puzzles. By the time it was released, these things were everywhere and it completely blocked your progress if you couldn't do them. It essentially broke the game for me because there were blocking pieces of your story and the end game weapons requited you get explore all the "vistas" which were mini jumping puzzles.
     
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  6. Luciferase

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    Oh I see PrimeRib...Yeah I wouldn't want something like that either (all Mario game or Uncharted)...Just times of smart "jump to" here or there might be nice that require some thought to pass...Perhaps not in the main story line (unless another route around was possible), but for side quests or dungeon crawl adventure.
     
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  7. jondavis

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    Yea, I would like to see jump and more.
    I did post something on that in the features thread.
    Features you'd like to see in Shroud of the Avatar - Sticky

    The way I think this could work is some of these being part of the skill sets you learn
    Maybe you can jump at first but putting skill into it would make you jump farther or higher or something.

    As for puzzles:
    1. there should be more then one way across, but I don't think every character type should be able to cross
    2. the ones who can cross should be able to flip a switch or open a door or something to get the other party members through

    Example
    Bridge is out - jump, teleport, push a log over the gap, carpenter repairs bridge. indy uses his whip to swing across, something falls over the gap after shooting it with your bow

    So yea you would have to find someone with one of these skills to get across.
    For single player either they should be able to learn more skills or able to hire a NPC to do some of these things.
     
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  8. RelExpo

    RelExpo Avatar

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    I completely agree with you. In the other post I linked I mentioned crouching, swimming, etc as well and would love to see.

    I know it's still early in development but I hope towns (and the rest of the world) are NOT as flat as the town demo. I just haven't seen anything on this subject yet and the brilliant collective minds here will come up with great ideas.
     
  9. Lord British

    Lord British Lord British SOTA Developer

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    Very interesting discussion. At the moment our tech does NOT include jumping. I agree with all the pros and all of the cons above... so, lets keep discussing it... :)
     
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  10. RelExpo

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    We shall, my liege! Thank you for the interest and tech note.
     
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  11. Owain

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    I would think you'd have to have jumping. Pretty much every MMO I've played, as you were running across the terrain, if you encounter a low obstacle like a fence or a wall, you could elect to jump over it. There should be a stamina penalty for it, however, so you don't see guys in full plate jumping around like jack rabbits.

    I remember being very annoyed with some single player RPG games (Dragon Age) where the game would have you running on rails from quest to quest, and suddenly finding that you had to go an annoying distance out of your way because you couldn't jump over a couple of stones only a foot or so in height.
     
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  12. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Jump, climb, and swim, please.

    I should edit this to be more helpful.
    Jump is pretty well covered here. I should be able to hop over or onto logs, toppled pillars, low fences.

    One of the core abilities for thieves in DnD was climb walls. If I'm faced with a rough stone wall, or a tree, or rope, or drainpipe, I'd like to be able to try to climb it.

    Swimming gives me travel options, but if you want to use water as an obstacle, I'd understand.
    It could take stamina for distance, or if you are loaded down with equipment, but if I want to strip off and swim out to the island in the middle of the lake, maybe that would be doable. Arriving on an island naked with maybe just a dagger I held in my teeth... There's adventure for you.
     
  13. RelExpo

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    That was what prevented me from playing Guild Wars 1. I saw a log I wanted to jump over, couldn't, and basically it bugged me too much in the end to continue playing. Perhaps a little fickle but to me a 3d game with adventure and exploration should have not only jumping, but climbing, crouching, swimming, and running.

    As you mentioned Owain, a stamina penalty should be incurred and with heavier armor, more so. Perhaps you sink with full plate on? *chuckles* Reminds me of Link in the Water Temple.
     
  14. PrimeRib

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    I should point out that jumping or not, I do want active avoidance. The ability to quickly dodge out of the way that you see in gw2, Neverwinter, TERA, Dragon Nest, etc.

    I completely see Owain's point, but the flip side is that jumping raises the bar on what can be done with the terrain often forcing a string of complex jumps to create a Mario Bros environment.
     
  15. Umbrae

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    If this was all jumping was for I think I would rather have an option to "hop" over small obstacles rather than a free-jumping feature. If jumping is put in it should be meaningful for more than just hopping a fence. Although I whole-heartily agree with Dragon Age and other games that funnel you through an area to make it seem larger by using something that should be easily jumped over.
     
  16. Owain

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    Whether the jumping is meaningful is irrelevant in my mind. It's a normal action that pretty much everyone is capable of doing since childhood, and it would be odd to be unable to do it in game.

    It would be like being able to walk forward, but no, we didn't program the ability to walk backwards, since you can just walk forward everywhere just fine, so why would anyone wish to back up anyway?
     
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  17. High Baron O`Sullivan

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    I think jumping would add tremendous amounts of immersion to the world. Definitely not on the overworld map for obvious reasons, but I think as far as the dual scaled "instanced" towns, dungeons, etc, jumping would be a very much sought physical feat considering the game exists in a 3D world. I would hate to imagine a scenario where I could not jump over a spider in a dungeon, or a stream in my path. I would imagine that jumping would be as needed and as expected to be included as common movement tasks such as walking, running, and strafing. Just my 2 cents, but I really hope to see a open, free range movement design, and jumping is imperative to achieve that. What do you guys think?
     
  18. RelExpo

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    Completely agree with everything you wrote. I'd like to see what more people think/suggest. (For or against it)
     
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  19. Mugly Wumple

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    I'm no games programmer but I fear that the coding effort required for any realistic jumping would be so great that the temptation would be to make a jumping game. I fear that 12% of programming effort would result in 12% of the game involving jumping.
     
  20. Lord British

    Lord British Lord British SOTA Developer

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    I agree with much that is said on both sides again. Implementing a simple jump is not technically difficult. The gameplay ramifications are. By all means if we make places in the game you get "stuck" because a log or small stream block your path, then hell yeah, we should have implemented jumping, or something to NOT have that feeling occur. But also, if we have jumping then its almost impossible not to create spaces that you can jump "into" or "out of" unpredictably, and thus the jumping "puzzles" begin to creep in, even if not intended.
     
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