Can we JUMP? (Dev) Replied

Never implied otherwise.

As I said.

If that level of mobility was going to be in the game it would need to be a skill, as it just makes no sense for anyone other then a highly trained acrobat/gymnast to move like that. The other contention is the game would both have to be free of the conveniently distanced hook points to form puzzles to progress present in those games and must "always" present viable alternative routes for everyone who isn't a friggen ninja.

 

Well, that's why I said that I wasn't expecting to see that here (just my dream of exploration).

Although maybe armor worn/skills obtained could influence which types of contextual jumps you can reach. THAT would be something doable in SotA...

 

One of the examples was having a player jump on rooftops, commit a crime and be able to avoid punishment by the guards.

However, the solutions to that example would be either
a) Allow guards to blink to the player, or
b) Give them crossbows.

 

He also said that in one use-case, an object which can be opened (I think he used a sarcophagus as an example) might be problematic if the player jumps on the lid before activating it. Would the lid throw the player through the wall? If colliders are set properly, likely not.

I have to say that I got stuck a few times because I was unable to jump over obstacles, like chairs. There was one point I walked around the exterior of Owl's head, only to be met with an impassable river (I would have accepted being able to walk on it or even walk on the ground under water), and the stone bridge which led into the town was also blocking me. If I had been able to jump, I could have gotten over the low wall of the bridge and not be subjected to another 10 minute trudge around the barren backside of Owl's Head.

 

You'd have to make a design decision. The character moves if the platform it's on moves, or it doesn't. Code both, so you can flag the object as a platform. Perhaps the sarcophagus lid moves and you don't (just fall down into it), but the hovering pedestal takes you with it when it glides along.

If you want physics (like the lid throwing you) then code physics and deal with it. However, I don't see SotA as being a game that really requires physics, so the lid shouldn't throw you.

It's similar to the door opening problem. In my opinion, the door's collider should be temporarily disabled while the door is opening or closing. That way it won't push you or have you magically appear on top if it, with your head sticking out of the floor of the second level.

As for your Owl's Head trudge, I dismiss that (as you likely do) as an artifact of the R1 test. If that was in the final game, I'd mark it as a bug either in allowing you to go there, or by not letting you shortcut back. The only possible exception would be if there was a secret treasure chest or some other intentional reward for exploration, and even then, most games that have those have a shortcut back to the main areas. Reward the exploration but don't punish the player after the reward is handed out.

 

Or, instead of alternative routes, you could always have alternative options. So lets say there's one places in a dungeon where a bridge over a chasm is broken. One way to get to the other side might be using acrobatic skills. Another might be to use a magic spell to create a "cloud path" you could walk on. Another way might be to purchase such a spell on a scroll, or in a bottle, from a mage.

 

So basically - give everyone a way across the barrier: Mage? Cast that handy levitation spell. Thief? Use that acrobatic skill. Fighter? Use your brawn to solve the problem somehow.

In other words - it's not really a barrier.

So don't bother. I don't see this as a compelling reason for a jump skill. If you want an arbitrary gate, make it something else.

 

It was just an example... you could also have different dungeon paths, too, like Astrobia suggested.. which would create a number of different game experiences based on your choice. But even in the case that there is more than one way to get passed a barrier, it wouldn't necessarily be as simple as you're making it sound. A fighter would need to rely on a mage; if not a party member, then someone to procure the spell from. A mage would need to have that spell, and have the reagents. A rogue would need to fight a path that worked. So, the alternate solutions might not be that handy. One class of character could have an advantage over another.. while others would have to improve their skills, or gain gold, or help from others, before returning to a dungeon.

 

Sorry without jump moving around is a problem. How many people use it getting up a hill, or to jump down from the 2nd floor etc. Mostly all the games from the last 8 years have jump...must be a reason why people think its necesary.

Jump and swimming are 2 handy tools to explore that lands with.

 

That said if you do jump off a second story building I hope you take damage, especially in armour... And I hope your armour takes damage. Though we will still totally do it. If the price of jumping off the balcony is a healing potion and some minor repairs to save 30 seconds walking down the stairs that's acceptable to me. Probably about as efficient as all those recall scrolls I used to use up recalling from the roof of my tower to my front door in UO to meet someone.

 

With all the focus in Ultima 8 on asymmetric jumping, it would seem odd to not be able to jump at all... I kind of expect it.

 

I would love to have my character jump! Its more realistic!

 

Realistic and practical....so your not forced to run around a rock or an outcropping of flowers... I'm 100% fine with taking falling damage. I think making a modern MMO without jump/swim is a huge step backwards from games that are out today(and been out for years)...

another thing is some kind of "sprint" a short distance burst run

 

Jumping is fine for, you know, jumping over a fence instead of running the long way round to a gate etc. But I swear if there is ANYTHING dexterity related in terms of puzzles, or even a "you have to make a perfect jump across this chasm to get to the second half of this dungeon" (a-la U8), I will quit the game!

If I wanted to play a platformer, I'd have bought a Nintendo.

 

Just gonna chime in as pro-jump. Last game I played without a jump felt wrong to me.

 

If they add a jump command, I hope it's realistically applied - for instance don't let people just bounce around in place. Jumping takes energy and you certainly can't do it in heavy armor.

 

I can do it in heavy armor!( just not too high) Just saying jumping is realistic

 

They've said something to the effect that weight like armor would affect your running speed, so you couldn't run as fast if you were wearing heavy plate. I would expect the same thing to effect jumping. Though, this is an alternative to a stamina system, which so far they've decided to take out .. so I would guess that a light armor character would be able to jump to his heart's content.

 

If you're in a safe zone, like a non-sieged city, then I say put no stamina loss on jumping or swimming. Out in the general wild (or in a sieged city), in a scenario to be solved or when fighting someone/something, then yes, make stamina a requirement. Encumbrances from armor should be in effect all the time, no matter where you are.

The reason is really simple: losing stamina is annoying. BUT, however annoying it is, it's a problem to be dealt with when you are trying to solve, finish or otherwise beat a scenario. In the city or other safe point of interest there would be no reason to force that on the player, and would make it harder to get around quickly, especially in a location you'll be seeing a lot of. It's a limitation that we don't need in those areas.

 

But on the other hand, in MMORPGs, I sort of get tired of seeing players running and jumping everywhere. And of course, the NPCs don't see anything strange going on. There would also be a much higher penalty on sprinting than simply running. Getting around quickly is what horses are for. ... and I hope horses make it into the game.

Would also be cool if there could be combat within non-sieged cities in some instances, like fighting with a bandit in an alleyway at night, or being a thief chased by guards.