Character animations and movement are ruining the experiencee

tbh, this doesn't bother me at all. Graphic are something that could be patched years after the release. Do just enough to make demos.

 

Strangely enough reporting bugs and providing feedback about what is good and what needs more focused work seems exactly what the Pre-Alpha is about.
The OP is doing that. Are you?

Edit: The character animation does need work, but to be honest I would ratther see the rest of the animations (environment, animals, etc.) see some love before reevisiting characters down the road in beta.

 

Character movement and feel is super important. If it's wrong, the game isn't fun to play.

We've had motion capture in games since 1994 - 20 years ago. I don't know if it's so expensive it's way out of reach of this project, but I wouldn't think so.

 

In a way I kind of like the animations because they seem more "real" to me then say games like WoW or even GW2. I think, and this is just my opinion, that they are going for a very realistic feel to this game in movement as well as many other elements in the game i.e. crafting, conversation, etc. If you actually watch people run or walk you will see some very odd patterns and movements and all our quite unique. The same could be said for a fight. If you watch two swordsmen go after one another it's not all that flashy but rather rough and heavy (fencers aside). In games like WoW or these current "action" mmo's the movement is not set in reality. That's fine and I enjoy that type of game and movement also but I don't think it fits well for SotA.

I do agree that they need some work on animations but I also hope that they keep in line with the more realistic approach. I simply love what they have done with jump. Jumping is a good example of this realism that I feel they are going for. In SotA jumping looks hard and it is! Well for an old man like me haha. Honestly though go tell your friend to go jump over a stone wall, I bet he will look awkward or at the very least you will get a good laugh

 

Defensive? oh god no, I am just amused.

How about this analogy, you are a builder one with pride in the skill you have and the quality you create, you build houses maybe. Or boats, big boats ones that cost 200,000 squids plus. the thing you are building for your client is half complete it looks not like a boat but a abstract framework because there are wires running everywhere and all sorts of things half completed. This is just normal and part of how the production line works, no big deal. The owner comes for a tour of the factory cause they want to see their pride and joy, on seeing the current state of their boat/house they start asking questions like, where is the motor? why isn't this thing I wanted put into it yet? where does the toilet lead to? not here right? this here looks dodgy, why is this taking so long? all sorts of things that piss you off cause all you want to do is the work and also they did not even ask how is it going or anything else that would help alleviate their current understanding of the process.

They then ***** to your boss out loud how this is not acceptable and then go on FB and ***** more.

 

For a game that is far from an Alpha release i think the team is doing a damn good job. How man games were you allowed to test pre alpha? Everything will feel a little wonky at first. I do understand your concerns as i share them also, but do give credit where it is due

 

The UI is problematic--no, it's downright bad. In my case, I get dizzy trying to move around in a house, and I feel like a drunk man walking down the street. It would be nice to be able to slow down the movement, perhaps toggle between walk and run.

The developers need to know how different people perceive the game, and whether you agree or not is not germane to this forum. The problem for the developers is to create something that will run on an extremely wide variety of computers, using divergent operating systems, unbelievably diverse graphics engines, for users ranging in age from pre teens to seniors like myself who are in their 70s. Yes, we all have different impressions, but my issues are as valid as yours. Let me state my impressions, and I will let you state yours. But please don't criticize someone for having a different issue than you do, or for viewing the situation differently than you.

 

Well the last time I checked...this was a FEEDBACK forum. Not a boat. A place where we give our feedback and concerns about certain aspects of the game that concern us. We are giving our input. Not bitching about the people who give input. Are the posters about the crafting set up not allowed to say anything either? Or the people with concerns about houses, or textures also to keep their opinion to themselves? So by your way of thinking, nobody should post anything on the FEEDBACK form. Nobody is bitching or complaining to the boss. Simply putting in a legit concern on the FEEDBACK forum.

How about this analogy, you are a builder with pride in the skill. You build a boat or house. Nobody looks at it or comments on it, and you forget about the bathroom. Once done, you figure 'hell who needs that, they can just do their business outside.' The due date comes along for the buyer to get his new product. And then it is realized you forgot the bathroom. Well the buyer goes on and bitches at your boss, he bitches on FB and every other media he can find. You loose your reputation as a builder, your boss begins to loose business. And the beautiful design you made, becomes a failure and loss. All because of something as simple and small like the bathroom. Sure you can add it in later, but the initial damage to the original sale has been done. It will be months of work to fix, and in the meantime costing more money.

The MMO crowd is not forgiving. They will find the smallest thing to gripe about upon release and amplify it. So those of us stating our opions on things that matter to us, is part of the testing phase. Which is better, to ignore an issue completely, in hopes it will be fixed beforehand. Or state the issue early, so it something that is on the list of 'things to do' for the devs?

 

I've raised the same issue with R1, and it is still there. It has also been there on every other Ultima game really, but back in those days (U9 not included), it was acceptable - not anymore. As far as I understand, a great part of the team behind SotA was involved in crafting the Ultima series we love, and while that is all great, I think for things like animation, UI and general 'feel', we shouldn't be matching the past, but taking huge leaps forward.

I'm not asking for varied combat modes and sophisticated moves like in The Witcher, but just basic animations that "feel right". It doesn't have to be realistic, it doesn't have to look stunning, it just needs to get out of the way and allow for, to quote LB, "Suspension of Disbelief". Sorry but my disbelief not only that I'd be living in another world, but also that the team could accomplish a game that feels right, is far from being suspended at the moment, and THAT is what needs fixing until the final version.

I seriously hope they will pull this off, but I must say my faith is growing weaker on a daily basis. Jumping looks god awful. Running feels like you're jogging joyfully in the park. Doing both is an exercise of patience and a utterly frustrating. The models look VERY dated for a game that is trying very hard to look realistic.

To me the biggest issue is, it all looked and felt right in the prototype RG showed before the Kickstarter. I thought in 10 months it was supposed to get better, not worse. Graphics were better, gameplay was alright, and I couldn't wait to get my hands on what was proposed. Not anymore.

 

To me the biggest issue is, it all looked and felt right in the prototype RG showed before the Kickstarter. I thought in 10 months it was supposed to get better, not worse. Graphics were better, gameplay was alright, and I couldn't wait to get my hands on what was proposed. Not anymore.​

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I absolutely second this sentiment.
Really strange but this awkward camera, movement and general feel to move is a game breaker from second 1.

 

I think a lot of the unnatural look is down to the upright posture when running, When most people run they lean forward slightly, The character lacks weight to its movement which is hard to achieve, I have done animation in Milkshape and 3D studio Max and it is very time consuming, I checked videos of R1 and R2 and they are the same, A long way to go yet and they have a lot on their plates, Don't forget this is just to stress test the systems, And other pictures show they are working on monsters and many other things in the game, The animation at present is functional and that's what matters for this second test.

 

All i can say is what i have all along, I expect nothing less form Richards G. game, even in its early development, then there was in UO 17 years ago. This is 2014, with state of the art Unity game engine, and top notch development team.
Ill also say the characters are, butt ugly for most any game of this day. I would like to see , even if it is just the head, something in line with Aion, DAoC. Terra.RoM. ect.
I plane to play this game for years to come, so i don't think its to much to ask for something that looks good and feels right in movement .
I can wait for the NPCs AI to get its improvements,I can wait for the crafting , But some thing should be right from the start.

 

I think this would have been a much better thread if the OP stared out with:

"The Animation looks a little wonky to me and unenjoyable. I understand this is a Pre Alpha and you guys are hard on working 0n other things, but will animations get tweaked in the future?"


Instead we get.

And you wonder why people take offence.
Instead of "being honest" and kicking the devs in the teeth and comparing there hard work to a 1997 video game, be constructive and give positive feedback. Animations, like most works of art, get tweaked during testing and development. Just take a deep breath and remember this is still in development and this is why we are testing.

You are correct, the devs are looking for constructive feedback, not:

or

or

Or Off Topic

Example of good constructive feedback would include:

and

We need to remember to be more constructive when giving feedback and not just entirely bash a subject. Then you will not have people take offence to your comments or think you are just ignorant to the development process. If you don't like something the tell them why you don't and give suggestions as to what needs to be done to make the game enjoyable for you.

Thanks!

 

The issues are true, for me I don't feel like my avatar is one with the ground, seems float like. Much like I felt playing DAOC ( Dark age of Camelot )

Also, does the team/dev actually make 3d models or are they using Public Domain, from with in the unity engine.

 

Both, some items you have seen in game during R2 were made by some of the players themselves.

 

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that I don't recall that the focus has been on the character models / animations per se at the moment. Good, constructive feedback on what is being implemented, should be fine.

Hyperbole, like the '1997' comment tends to get ignored by some of us, because we were playing games both before and after '97, and they were far, far uglier than this. You're honestly telling me that you think Jedi Knight of the square polygonal limbs and block faces, looks better than this? Has better animation? Or other games of the era that were sandbox... like the original Grand Theft Auto? Top view, pixels running. Ultima Online came out, one again pixel art. Perhaps you're referring to Final Fantasy VII, perhaps the first polygonal console RPG, as the last of the bad 3D animation releases? Lets have a taste of the releases of games in 1997, and easy enough to look at the ones afterwards from there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_in_video_gaming

One thing that frustrates me about the SotA forums at times are people throwing around the 'Games were better back in X'. No, no they really weren't.

That annoyance aside. Jumping sounded like a neat addition but at the moment it feels really... spongy for lack of a better word. At times it feels like holding spacebar doesn't make that much of a difference, and it feels random if I'll actually clear an obstacle or not. I guess I'd like a slight vault option if you run up to a low wall and press/hold space, albeit when I'm clad in my full plate I'm not expecting to be able to leap knee high obstacles in a single bound.

 

I've done some 3D modeling & animations - tbh this is really good work at this stage!

Couple things I have noticed an improvement on:
1. animation sequence when standing from a chair is much cleaning and less jerky thank R1
2. idle animation of toon works seamlessly now (was jerky before)

What will need improvement:

1. animation approaching chair for sitting - sorry, I'm not a dog who will circle around 2, 3 times before sitting (unless I know a certain someone put a tack on said chair)
2. currently, if chairs are too close to tables, will circle 4 or 5 times, then get "stuck" in a float until finding another chair to sit upon.
3. circle animation at the onset of entering crafting mode is silly (really, am not a dog) and really can go away
4. would like to see 5 speeds for movement
   1. sneaking - tip-toe effect, hunched shoulders, elbows slightly bent, very slow pace, some sort of endurance check for being tense in the sneaking mode (25% normal speed - yes, this is super slow). that is one thing that irritates me about UO, if my thief is going to sneak around (stealth) movement should be slower, not the same speed as walking
   2. walking - erect posture, maybe some swagger, elongated arms gently swaying back & forth with step, no endurance check, normal speed
   3. jog - slight forward lean, arms bent at elbows, 125% normal speed, endurance & encumbrance check (75% of walking)
   4. fast run - forward lean of torso, arms bent at elbows, 150% normal speed, endurance & encumbrance check (50% of walking)
   5. sprint - same posture as fast run, but 200% normal speed for very short distance (mostly used to escape encounters and guards)

 

I'm not quite sure why some of you feel insulted.. In my opinion I was being totally honest about my feelings towards the animation and "feel" to the character movement. The character movement is essential to the game, and if I find it to be a weak point in the pre-alpha release, offcourse I will give feedback on it on a forum asking for player experiences!

I wanted to share my feeling for the sake of the game - my wish is the same as all of yours - I wish for this game to be truly great. Isn't it constructive criticism to say that the character animations in a game such as Dark Souls are great, and the developers should aim for such greatness??

If you think that my feedback was rude, wait for the general public reaction if the feel of the character isn't perfected a lot. They are going to be brutal.

Shroud of the Avatar has being in development for a while, and there is 10 months to go, but I am very worried about the character animation and feel because of the state that they are in now - 10 months since the initial kickstarter video..

 

No, its more than that. You are describing volunteer beta testing. We are paying investors whose input carries a certain weight at this juncture.

 

I agree. The op was not being disrespectful. He was simply giving his feedback and opinion. Lets not go down that path where people will be hesitant to give their opinions. After all if the op experienced the alpha then he had paid to back a game that is not out yet like the rest of us. As long as people keep it respectful it's all good! It will help the developers focus their efforts where it is needed most. And we all have to admit, these developers are very much involved with the fans!


Mal