Clarification on the talk of devoicing from the livestream

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chris, Aug 1, 2020.

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  1. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer Ambassador

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    I saw several people who took what was said in the live stream yesterday about devoicing people and somehow managed to turn that into a "THIS IS FACISM!" thread. There is no auto devoicing system. I just made a chart to help me track people who are repeat problem offenders in Universal chat and then used it to help confirm that two people who were reported multiple times last week were long term problems.

    I'm not sure a couple of people got the idea that somehow talking on Universal chat in a free to play MMORPG is some kind of first amendment right. That us daring to not allow players talking about the size of their genitalia, drug use, and just endless trash talking and bullying meant we were fascist.

    The right to use universal chat is a privilege and abusing it to damage the game for other players will result in it being stripped away. This should not be controversial.
     
  2. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    I blame it on the times we live in .
     
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  3. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

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    People misunderstanding things in todays world is just the norm now. They THINK they are listening but do not notice how they are thinking while the other person is speaking. in the words of Ozzy, " I know what they'll find, its in their mind, its what they want to see."
     
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  4. Jikininki

    Jikininki Avatar

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    I believe the concern mostly lies in your comment that a certain favored few would be given the abilities to de-voice players in /u instantly at their discretion. Would this be done without a dev review first? If so, would a dev be notified each time, so it could be reviewed later to insure it wasn't being abused? It does raise more concerns and questions than security.
     
  5. Grumpy Krabnevir

    Grumpy Krabnevir Avatar

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    That is 100% correct, and should not be controversial, but by the same token, people shouldn't be unable to voice an opinion without fear of several people who hate them for whatever reason to auto flag them for review. 'Abusing' is a subjective term, subject to your discretion. Past history in chat and the forums has shown that people get banned simply for voicing frustrations with the game, or saying anything negative at all. It is clearly your right to moderate in any way you see fit, but reading the tea leaves and judging by past history of moderations, i'll exercise my right to remain silent.

    Thanks for your consideration
     
  6. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer Ambassador

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    This feature has always been there and we've discussed it before. It doesn't permanently devoice them though, it just gives them a 4 hour devoice. This gets used maybe twice a month and I've agreed with everyone they did. This is not something that is just handed out willy nilly. There are currently about 10 total people who can do this and I have great trust in all of them.
     
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  7. Dinsoo

    Dinsoo Avatar

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    I think it's awesome that dumb people lose their voice for a few hours.
     
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  8. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

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    The main thing to consider is the health of the game and creating a welcoming presence to new and returning players. If putting a few toxic people on time out for a couple hours helps de-escalate situations that would drive players away, I am okay with that.

    Everyone has a bad day from time to time, and for the most part people in /U are very supportive, but we all know the people who are constantly downers and seemingly hate the game they, for some reason, can't stop playing. My response has always been to just block such people, along with shady vendors, and periodically release them from my own personal time out, but I can completely understand Portalarium wanting to take steps to try to make new players' first experience in the game, if not a pleasant one, at least one that discourages people being jerks to each-other and spouting obscenities at the developers during and after the live streams.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  9. Jikininki

    Jikininki Avatar

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    You said on stream that you would be letting these people know they now have this ability...
     
  10. Sulaene Moon

    Sulaene Moon Avatar

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    You wonder who the 10 people are?



    Cha ching
     
  11. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    Yes, Maybe its a matter of you just being a very poor communicator but you said in stream that you used "how many people block you as a guide on "problem" people. I will ALWAYS take issue with that approach mainly because there are many many reasons why someone would mute someone else and not all of them bad. There are much better, and far more accurate means to find the "problem" people. Second issue was you proceeded to mention giving other players this ability. You said nothing about their ability being a temp ban. I heard the word perma ban mentioned. Once again, maybe a matter of you just being down right a poor communicator. Either way, I don't know those people or their mindset and so I am not comfortable with them having this power and quite frankly I disagree with ANY players having this power even if you DO trust them. It feeds the whole, favoritism beast and that's not a good reputation to have but its your game, your company, do with it what you will. Finally, I never once called you a fascist. My concerns were very clearly laid out. Yes, I understand that freedom of speech technically applies to the governments ability to censor your speech and I understand private companies are able to censor speech on their sites if they see fit. I don't agree with it and I don't have to support companies that do. We have a huge problem with this happening right now with facebook, twitter, and other platforms and its a serious problem but its your company. Do with it what you will. Finally,I'm still playing the game and don't have plans to stop yet (I may even still buy a crown or two from your store) but I don't have much faith in your abilities to build a great game anymore. My opinion. Will I get censored for saying it?? I wonder?? I Still have some hope you pull it off but quite frankly, that hope is fading very fast....... will I get censored for saying that I wonder????
     
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  12. CarlNZ

    CarlNZ Avatar

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    People chat in universal? I usually just see ads for twitch streams that no one watches .
     
  13. Ancev

    Ancev Avatar

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    I'm not seeking chat moderation powers but I do hope they've gone to people who can be impartial and have participated constructively throughout the development of the game, and not people who are threatening to leave the game and make the devs feel like crap about it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  14. Tazar

    Tazar Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    I remember Chris making statements about this system way back when Universal Chat was first implemented. It was also discussed at a SOTA-Con Developer Conference earlier than that. From his statement in the recent stream, he just added a few new ones, but the program has been there all along (as long as Universal Chat has been here). Given how long Universal Chat has been around, and the lack of complaints about it - this one seems to be working well by giving folk a cool-down time when their passions might otherwise drive them overboard.
     
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  15. Gyzarus

    Gyzarus Avatar

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    It's just universal chat, which is use for helping out players who seek help in the game public, and I do believe it's not a good place to voice the opinions, if I want something done I would do it in private, and not having a big parade telling people I have done it. To be able to chat in universal is a privilege, and yes it will be abused by anyone with intention, so to clarify, if there is a section on chat about technical issue it would be good to separate chat with game Issues on it rather than spamming in the universal chat. The chat MODs still need to monitor for any abuser who are not helping out in the game and probably destroy the growth of the game. Right now the universal chat doesn't specify what can be said or what cannot be said, so to separate from the helping section to tech issue section will not get all these cluster together making every information to mess. Trade chat is already implemented so I don't know if additional for sorting issue will help in this, just a suggestion, you guys need not take my opinion seriously. Cheers folks
     
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  16. Grumpy Krabnevir

    Grumpy Krabnevir Avatar

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    I think that was directed at me. I didn't call him a fascist, I just basically said that giving other people the ability to shut down speech of someone they don't like without a transparency is a fascist tactic. However, I do concede that this is a private company owned by him and he has the right to moderate it as he pleases.

    Possibly so, i've been moderated and seen others moderated for similar statements.

    People typically don't take negative criticism well no matter how nice you say it, and I and others have been guilty of saying it some not so very nice ways. It's more a representation of 6 years of frustration watching the population steadily decrease to where we are now, and less of a representation of how important the issue we may be complaining about is.

    It would be different if we were complaining about things and all the while the population was constantly expanding, or even if it wasn't expanding, was more representative of a decent amount of satisfied customers participating. Then perhaps, I would introspectively reflect on the correctness of my opinions.

    My questions to Chris are: What is the end goal population target? What are the missing pieces that are keeping this game from successfully drawing and retaining new customers ? (other than the mere presence of people like me, as we've been told), What is the timeframe that you expect to reach that point?

    Is this a business or a hobby? I'm just asking. I think they are fair questions from people who helped fund the creation of the game.

    Moderation/Ban incoming as soon as Chris reads this, i'm sure :/ even though I asked them nicely.
     
  17. Grumpy Krabnevir

    Grumpy Krabnevir Avatar

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    And, to give a fairer representation of what i'm talking about in regards the the chat abuse:

    PvP'ers like to trash talk, in the past when pvp'ing, I have participated in such talk in universe chat with opponents. While never making it personal (speaking for myself), or threatening, it did indeed get salty at times. I had multiple people private message me and complain that they did not like what I was saying. But as non pvp'ers, they don't understand how the talk is sometimes part of the drama/fighting, and don't understand that to people who do participate in it, they don't take it in the same way that someone from the outside looking in does.

    I've been chat blocked by people simply because of this. Their definition of 'abuse' is not a fair representation of what is really happening in that situation, and simply because they don't understand it or like it, they are 'offended'. It's really more of a lack of understanding on their part, as well as a little too much sticking their nose in other people's business when it has nothing at all to do with them. But, because they get to 'label' it, and associate anyone who participates in it as an 'evil' person, somehow they think they hold a moral high ground, when in reality they have no understanding or clue of what they are talking about.

    I understand Chris mentioned things such as people talking about genitals, or drugs, or whatever else he said. Those things rarely happen, yet I know multiple people, myself included, who have been chat banned when none of those things applied, simply because someone didn't like someone else's personality or tone or most likely, their chosen role-play style.

    That's all i'm saying. Thanks Chris for letting us know that you are relying on these people, I will make it easy on them, i'll do all my chatting elsewhere.
     
  18. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    What's a Universal Chat?
     
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  19. Ragnarr Lodbrok

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    Is SoTA Becoming a care bear society? Are Dev's keeping political views out of their daily Twitching and Tweeting? --------- What happened to good ole fashion Game Play? Warnings of abuse should be given out. Let people play the GAME. Too much moderation and micro managing WILL destroy your customer base. I thought that's what the language filter was for?
     
  20. Superbitsandbob

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    What were they reported for? It would be interesting to know what is acceptable and what isn't. Was it just opinions on the game? Or abuse?
     
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