Classless becoming classed.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mac2, Mar 17, 2018.

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  1. Kain Darkmoor

    Kain Darkmoor Avatar

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    Yes melee weapons are probably the only thing that actually does wear down. But with greater repair I find it a hard to believe it only lasts you a couple weeks.
     
  2. Elrond

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    That wouldnt be a good ideea , i crafted, masterworked, enchanted few days ago maybe 500 wands or more just to get 1 very good and about 5-6 mediocre..now imagine if i got to pick the ennchants and none would break on masterwork /enchant id end up with 500 wands id need to sell. The reverse to this would be your idea .. i dont need to craft 500 wands because i can get the wands i need to sell with just 10 crafted wands... But if i did that i wouldnt buy about 20k wood from people, resin, bark , beetles so on ..id just buy enough for 5 wands ...so what happens with the resources that people farm and none needs them anymore because crafting got easy ?... Final result of your solution - We will end up with even more items then we currently have on vendors ..because no more breakage during enchanting to take a huge chunk of them out of the economy, a dead resources market... because the crafting loss is almost non existent ... most of items on vendors are probably 90% 2 masterwork..2 enchants and maybe the rest of 10% higher.All crafted items will sell basically for mats cost because well crafting became easy and once the market is oversaturated ... most crafted items will sell below mats cost.As for the being gm means we should always craft exceptionals ...imagine everyone running around in exceptional gear with high durability... you wont be selling stuff anymore because well exceptional gear lasts a whole lot more then normal gear.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  3. Cock of the North

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    I personally have worn down almost all of my gear so far. I am going to have to change everything soon, or else pay gold cotos to repair it all. And I also just discovered that apparently if I use a gold coto to repair it, it will actually decay FASTER the next time. Is that actually true?

    At the minute I just grind all day, because there is no specialisation, I actually NEED everything. I need as much attunement in every skill as possible. And in order to get crafting xp you have to actually gather and craft things. So logically in order to raise one crafting skill well, I am best off getting every single recipe and crafting it once, as well as gathering everything I see even if it is something I don't actually need, so I get crafting pool I can use for the skill I do.

    It's actually insane how you literally need everything in this game. I ask my girlfriend why she isn't interested in playing after I bought her the game and her answer was. I have seen you playing it and I don't want to have to grind that long in order to be decent. Sadly I am still not actually even close to the competitive level I want to be. So I grind every day. Using guidance pots because unfortunately I am unable to adopt this, build a huge pool with all your skills locked, sort of concept. I just use skills to raise them as I get xp. And with not being allowed to macro its either, grind a huge pool, or spam a skill with a low pool without macros.

    It had occurred to me the other day, that the endgame in this game is actually accumulating every skill to at least gm and accumulating enough pool to maintain that. I do wonder if they should look at the longevity of that. I mean, this is what, episode 1? Someday will they have to raise skill caps to 300? And will we all be using +20 items or something? How is it going to work?

    Anyway, thats enough talking, I have to get back to grinding non stop xp, gold and materials to make more armour and weapons. :D
     
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  4. Kain Darkmoor

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    Possible solution: Increase the resource cost by 4x, get rid of the frustrating casino style of creating +1 items. Win/win.
     
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  5. Jezebel Caerndow

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    Guess I will just need more alts.
     
  6. Curt

    Curt Avatar

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    Keep track of how many times the player used a recipe and use that to give a bonus that's the way to specialise i would prefer.

    If one player made 10 long swords and another 100 long swords the later is better in doing just that recipe
     
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  7. Last Trinsic Defender

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    You are wrong. My account dates back to 2014. Not everyone thinks only for himself.
    It's simply not good to call a start of a game and several players are already years ahead by ways nobody can use right again because they are patched out of the game.
    A start means all at the same line and starting by zero. Or is this a handicap-game? If so, then plz call it that way Portalarium ...
     
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  8. majoria70

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    Yes I agree @Mac2. IMO It will be just like adding frosting on top of it. A cool new feature that does not address crafting issues we Already have. While the frosting may taste good at first you will still be left with a crafting system that is missing it's soul imo. As it stands now moving up the ladder in crafting is way more than just frustrating, it is a downright horrible experience and then given that you still can totally blow up (ie destroy) your item at 99% skill level is ridiculous. It is a helpless feeling to click on craft and watch yourself get those 9-40 metal scraps back no matter which skill level you have. This is broken in my opinion.

    To not reward the skill of the craftsman is very wrong. To just add a proficiency on top of this without fixing all that is wrong with crafting imo is just wrong. It would only be a momentary fun thing with the basics leveling reward system of crafting not fixed.

    And can you imagine why proficiency is added on top of this but of course it is much easier imo than going deeper to fix the code of crafting giving players some choice on blowing up their items. It is as it stands now a very randomized occurrence no matter what level you are at, we have no say and our crafting skill certainly has very little say in it happening. I totally want to be able to try to choose what happens during crafting to impact what happens, I still could fail but perhaps my failure is just inferior not a total waste unelss I deemed it was and decided to scrap the itme. So to add a little extra ore or something to affect my crafted item to not fail even if I make something inferior to what I was trying to make. We could have a whole line of inferior items that still are useful ;)

    Such as:
    Add items to the table to use just in case but if you forget to add them to the table then it is your bad. These cause a popup at a failure Some examples of Things we could add such as;

    Add to Crafting table before starting to craft:

    Water - puts out fire, lowers temperature of metals and materials
    ore - used to reinforce and bind and weld together
    Oil - adds heat and fluidity
    Coal - builds up heat source, keeps fire ignited
     
  9. Deadly Habit

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    I think specializations are a true direction towards end game and a way to deal with classless "unlimited" leveling. I also agree there should be crafting specialization skills that can and should affect the economy. In theory specializations should act like a class specialization, but with the unlimited leveling they shouldn't exceed the math of those if you invest enough time (and I don't mean it takes 16+ hours a day for months).
     
  10. Numa

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    This just about sums up what high level crafting is at the moment.
     
  11. King Robert

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    Unless, of course, they PAID FOR THE GAME TO BE BUILT, then tested the game all along.

    Winners win, and others, well, lose. Welcome to life.

    Proud member of the 1%, viz., that percent of the population who knows I am exactly where in life I am because that is what I earned.

    Capitalism, social Darwinism, or evolution. They all lead to the strong survive. Buff up, folks!
     
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  12. kaeshiva

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    But this is exactly the situation we're in now.
    Crafted gear doesn't sell for more than mats cost, so you make a massive loss if you're trying to buy resources and make a product and sell it. You'd have been better off selling the mats. Which is why you see so many people sellling mats. Who is buying these? Maybe you are...but I'm not buying mats and trying to turn a profit, its an impossibility. Most of the mats are getting bought by people who buy it, and bring it to a crafter to make them gear, or make themselves gear.

    As you say, you'd not need to make 500 wands to get 5 good ones. So you don't have a pile of mediocre crap to sell, or a pile of nothing (complete loss) to eat. I'd much prefer to see carefully designed, custom gear on vendors instead of the vendor after vendor of RNG-failure, almost-no-dura JUNK that people are just trying to offload. If we need to increase the cost of crafted goods to balance the breakage, then so be it - I'd happily spend twice the mats, or 3 times the mats, if I could control the outcome. Making 500 wands to get 5 good ones is just a bad system.

    So lets say you made your 500 2x/2x wands ...this is when you can start pushing for better. The breakage threshold as currently implemented is far too high, far too wasteful. When I tell a new person who wants their first set of bronze gear that they need to spend 20 hrs mining to get the materials they're absolutely floored. And then there's no guarantee they'll even get anything out of it, or get what they want, because RNG. Its insulting.

    Most people will put in the time if they can see the goal or fruit of their efforts. Burning 500 beetles and getting nothing just makes me want to ragequit. I know I'm not alone.

    And your question - what happens with the resources? Demand drops, prices drop, and as prices of components drop, then value will shift to the actual final product and the level/skill of the crafter becomes more relevant -which is where it should have been all along.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  13. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    Fortunately this is not true (maybe just your own experience). 8 guild mates returned to the game in the last two weeks and 5 new players, all ready for launch!
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  14. kaeshiva

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    Firstly, persistence was announced well in advance so everyone had the same opportunity to start at the same time. Unless they didn't know about the game yet. But that's the same situation in any other persistent mmo, when you start, you aren't as strong as the people who've been playing longer. If you were, then what reason would there be to invest years developing your character?

    Far too much money, merchandise, etc. has changed hands. There will not be a wipe.

    Secondly, it is soo sooo soo much easier, and cheaper, to level up now. Its easier than it ever was. 3 outskirts zones easily get new folks past the rough patch that the rest of us had to grind through unlocking skills and such. There's now virtue gear available through low level, simple quests to get you started, whereas before, it was farm farm farm for either mats or money. At the higher end - Control points are back and cranking out xp, good xp, even in a full group. Many zones have been revamped and are better for solo players. The xp pool to skill transfer ratio has been tweaked, and guidance potion now makes it possible to GM a craft for a FRACTION of what it cost me in gold to do it a year ago. I could rage about needing to spend 10k ingots to do what can be done with 1k now, but I understand they need to make the game more accessible, so I deal.

    The recipe situation? Yeah, it sucks a bit. But back in the day, you had to gather the materials and physically MAKE each and every item to get it into your recipe book. Nowadays you can spend 10 mins and be taught over 200k (in gold) worth of recipes. And the advanced ones, yeah you gotta find or buy now, and that sucks a bit if you're trying to do the artisan thing. But its not insurmountable and plenty of people still sell these at reasonable prices.

    Its an evolving process, but the same remains true -the more time you put in, the better you will get.
    I am so tired of people expecting to create a character and be on the same level as someone who has been here for YEARS after playing for a few days.
    If thats what you want, I suggest one of the many 1-week-to-cap themeparks available, or perhaps an FPS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  15. Womby

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    Nobody is going to spend serious gold on something that wears out quickly. They'll make something cheap and disposable themselves.
     
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  16. Andartianna

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    Just to add some extra fire to the logs. I heard during the launch event that the exp for many monsters and bosses will be increased after launch so it will be much easier for new players to catch up if they work for it. On Mac's topic I am with you on this. I yelled for the toggle from the start on specializations for exactly the problems we are seeing now. I should not have to make a bunch of alts to have everything in an open system. I should be able to put the massive amounts of time into one character. The funniest thing I read in this thread so far is people saying that the specializations will help the economy. If buy helping the economy you mean the game selling more accounts you are correct there. The actually economy won't be changed as there is no restrictions on alts and it's very possible it will hurt the crafting economy for the casuals that don't have time to level up entire alts to compete. #BringbackOpenSkillsystems #BBOSS
     
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  17. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    I usually try to not make fun from others opinions, that's a good way to be heard and respected, but focusing on the topic, I'm one of those who still feel like we have the same open system with small adjustments, and happy with Chris's work about the design choices he made.
     
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  18. Solstar

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    I'm so glad the people clamoring to keep specializations away from crafting aren't making this game.

    Crafting needs them way more than combat. At least there is a deck in combat limiting hardcore grinders from being all powerful...

    There is zero legitimate argument against crafting specialization.

    Zero...


    ....



    No really. Zero.



    Stop.
     
  19. Snikorts

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    In short, casuals don't need alts to compete in specific field if there is some focus on skills. Classless system is good only for those who can play 24/h and be good at everything.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  20. Creb Darkenie

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    I think this has been the design for crafting since the beginning actually. I remember them talking about this in the very early releases. They wanted people to specialize in certain things. I have not played in awhile but thats what I remember. I think specializations give the ability for casuals to catch up and the hard core to exceed, at least in the specialization. Most of the hard core will have alts or second accounts anyways so it should not harm them that much as they have unlimited time to play, unlike the casual.
     
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