Community Talk about PVP - Opinions, Ideas and Suggestions (Poll inside)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Antrax Artek, Sep 17, 2018.

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What i think about PVP? (3 Choices - Votes displayed publicly)

  1. I love it, i'm a full time pvp player and I think it needs love and incentives

    6.6%
  2. I don't like PVP but i think pvpers need space and incentives for their playstyle

    22.6%
  3. I like PVP and PVE, i do both and i think PVP needs some good incentives

    31.4%
  4. I love it, i'm a full time pvp player and i'm happy with the current state of PVP

    0.7%
  5. I like PVP and PVE, I would like to see collaboration between the two playstyles

    23.4%
  6. I like PVP and PVE, i do both and i'm happy with the current state of PVP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. I don't like PVP and pvpers, i don't want others are rewarded for that

    7.3%
  8. As roleplayer i feel lack of emotions and immersion with the current PVP Protection system

    5.8%
  9. As roleplayer i'm happy to be protected all the time during my activities and rp sessions

    8.8%
  10. I would like the pvp to be removed from the game

    9.5%
  11. I would like the protection of the oracle to be removed from the game adding a Justice system

    17.5%
  12. I love it, i'm a full time pvper and i'm really disappointed for the low incentives of my playstyle

    3.6%
  13. I would like to see a Factions system that enables pvp among those who have chosen to join one

    43.8%
  14. I'd love to PVP but the cost for entry into PVP is too high

    16.1%
  15. I'd like to see PVP only releated gear and loots as reward for PVP

    16.8%
  16. I wish ransoms and the protection of the oracle to be removed from the game

    0.7%
  17. I would like the ransoms to be removed from the game

    16.8%
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  1. xadoor

    xadoor Avatar

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    It is group content, I do approve....

    Its just not gonna pay the bills, no way, no how.

    Go ahead and have stretch goals to collect money for it and spend all you collect on it...its still gonna be a giant dust bowl.
     
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  2. Greyfox

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    I like the Stretch Goal idea. Let Portalarium create a stretch goal for PVPers. Put their money where their PVP is. Start out with funding a transition from Unity to either Cry or Unreal engine.
     
  3. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

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    Point one......they have had their day and player numbers have now stabilised (than goodness), but to pre-launch levels.

    Point two....I have a guild, technically of around 40 members. Most of which (ignoring those like myself) probably spent a few hundred dollars on the game. Of those 40 members, I am the only one who still logs in. That is 39 people not buying items, not subscribing, not encouraging other people to try the game. My guild is just one of many.

    Lose players, you have a multiplier effect on lost income.
     
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  4. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

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    Just putting it out there......The stretch goals don’t work regardless what they are for.
     
  5. Greyfox

    Greyfox Avatar

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    Envy,

    Point One...I know many people in this game who left after being ganked by a PVPer and losing items. I know plenty of people who left because PVP was a focus over far more pressing needs. I know of plenty of people who quit due to nerfs, DIRECTLY a result of "PVP balancing". The only reason population stabilized, somewhat, was due to the developers FINALLY releasing QoL.

    Point Two...If PVPers were going to play this game the Obsidian Trials was the first step to proving the fact. VERY valuable developer time was wasted on that nearly completely unused content. The content had very specific rewards only obtainable with PVP. No one played it.

    Case closed.
     
  6. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

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    Name them along with the circumstances.

    I agree that the obsidian trials shouldn’t have been put in at this stage. The mechanic behind it was based upon a healthy player base. Would have been far better to have spent time on a Justice system, guild wars and factions.

    Not going to criticise too much on the obsidian trials as things needed to start somewhere.
     
  7. Dhanas

    Dhanas Avatar

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    Honestly if they left the game just because they got killed they are not those kind of players that will continue to play anyway. Those players are just salty and have no clue that in a game you cannot always win.
    About obsidian trials they are fun, but they way they are designed Is not good. You have to waste lot of time there waiting for players because there is not a queue system and you waste reagents, potions and item durabilty without Being rewarded. You will go to kill mobs and waste reagents if you don't have any benefit ( xp or drops)?
     
  8. elvenking

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    I would like to see stretchgoals for fishing or other stupidities that do not attract anyone and which are capriciously requested and performed with each release.
    PVP players are perhaps the largest community in the world of videogames and also the most spendthrift, DOTA 2 and Counter-Strike have a colossal money market and the much-hated pvpers pay good money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  9. Greyfox

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    Read the forums, their names are well documented. Everyone realizes the population was dwindling to unsustainable numbers. Those numbers FINALLY stabilized with the recent QoL implementation.

    Previously the population would fall like a rock after each PVP related nerf. We never witnessed a sustained population increase with new PVP

    I've wasted too much time on this subject already. Let the Development team choose and face the consequences. Now we are just going in circles.
     
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  10. E n v y

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    Well thank god player numbers stabilised at the known floor which consists of the die hard player base.

    As for the rest....just a load of FUD.

    Not going to respond again as this conversation is getting ridiculous.
     
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  11. Flesh2

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    possibly like i said it was months ago i dont recall for sure who it was
     
  12. majoria70

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    ahhhh well I'm of course for Fishing/boating and so much more for this sandbox game but not instead of any other system not getting love.

    I'm not necessarily for dance parties although we do need those for some players too, and I'm totally all for having a great PvP system in this game.

    Why oh why could we not have capitalized on the trials, factions, and pvp content too? I don't care for the necessarily guild wars we had though in the way we had them set up.

    I remember doing a control point once and a player wanted to join our group and was told that his guild was at war with some of the players guild I was playing with. He did not even know it or understand it. It was a bit sad.

    I would pvp sometimes if we had a Wintergrasp experience like wow had. If factions were appointed as you entered into the trials fighting for a common goal like to various quests throughout the area, weighpoints to secure, etc.

    The notice saying the trials have begun would happen several times a day and have a timer.

    No decay, no bodies to loot but a competition against factions/groups. Perhaps you get a body count,

    along with your rewards earned and perhaps titles could be earned for being a very dangerous person with a lot of kills and if you killed that player you get that reward too.

    So much we could do with pvp in this game that has not been done imo. Pvp quests are very missing too. Lots of reasons to do many things in this game missing. I always say loot is not all the incentive for every single thing. Other factors are just missing and keep getting missed.
     
  13. Floors

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    If you take the focus off the arena and 1-1 type battles and allow players to either fight for LB or Chaos and defend cool castle maps where you can stop players from entering (you know, think the battlefield series of games where theres an objective) getting killed during that will be alot less personal and alot more fun and we'd see alot more PvP I'm sure of it.

    And it could make for some interesting storylines too
     
  14. Witcheypoo

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    It is my uneducated opinion that ALL pvp areas should have a level cap, set ALL skills to ONE set point, either bringing UP folks who are lower or DOWN folks who are higher. If ALL stats are NORMALIZED then it would be fair. NO gear advantage, NO skills advantage, NO stats advantage. In this way it is ALL about the skill and NOT who has more gold, more luck, more time. If ALL stats, all skills, all gear is made EQUAL in TOTALITY in all pvp areas and there is NO more nerf/buff of PVE skills caused by a tiny minority of PVP players WHINING, then i might even pvp... but probably not. I have always despised pvp in any form, and i do not suck at it... i just hate it. Thanks
    Witcheypoo
     
  15. Floors

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    I dunno about changing people's skills i mean people worked hard for their skills, but at least match me up against those i have at least a shot with. like within 20 percent of your general build.

    We could still have some total free for alls, but you know, make some areas for those that want to fight people their general experience. The way it is now leads to min maxing everything which is a deadly sin of MMOs.
     
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  16. Arkah EMPstrike

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    This is a thing that is required to PvP. Someone who is just playing a build they like, if it doesnt squeeze the maximum offense and defence out of every usable skill/gear combo with that build (which in this game means having to use skills you never planned to) then it kidna takes away from the fun in open PvP because the non-minmaxed player has probly around 700,800 health and most minmaxxed guys deal like 300 damage per second in PvP or more. Seen stone fist hit me for over 300 damage, a tier 1 spell.

    In the obsidian trials however, everyone is forced into a FFA environment where everyone begins at the same time, and you are rewarded for jsut killing something even if you end up in last place. THAT is the model that pvp needs to get more people involved in light of the huge power gaps resulting from the massive ammount of skills people are forced to utilize to stand thier own. And the obsidian trials had plenty of PvPers playing in it, but those PvPers stopped playing in it. It would be useful to know why they stopped. My guess is it being the only battleground-like scenario it got old quick.

    But if the upcoming castle sieges reward per kill and avoid victory-exclusive rewards (a couple of titles and emotes would be fine for victory exclusive obviously), then havign some variety might make it better? Its only the open world PvP that normal I feel forced to maximize everything in. Im fine with just beign able to kill somone hear and there in a battleground type scenario
     
  17. CatweazleX

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  18. kaeshiva

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    I don't agree with the level-gating of scenes - I don't think it solves the issue people want it to, our skill system is very versatile. If you have put years into developing your character that -should- give you an edge. This is not a moba/survival game where everyone's on equal footing from the word go, nor should it be. I like the idea of factions, but regardless of what sort of faction system is implemented I'll never personally endorse the "getting killed while trying to go about your business" aspect of PvP. There are dozens if not hundreds of games I could go play if I wanted to deal with that. That's the dealbreaker for a lot of folks. Some of them hate PvP completely, but some like myself wouldn't mind participating occasionally if it wasn't just a complete waste of our time. The key is to make it lucrative without making it required; to make it rewarding but without making it more rewarding (at least, from the PvE-benefits side) than other activities. Most folks who don't PvP, don't really care what the PvPers are doing or pay attention to it. We mute the notifications and go about our business.

    I'd love to see an objective-filled battleground where a group of players had to work together to achieve something while fighting against another group of players working to achieve something different. For me, that is the fun PvP. Did it for years in DaoC - solid fun.

    I don't even really consider the 'roving 1 man gank squad' pvp at all, I consider it griefing. Many games allow it, and I avoid them all - I refuse to let "my" leisure time be affected/dictated by some bored kid who gets his kicks being a nuisance. I put up with it when I was younger but after seeing it rampant as these sorts of games got more mainstream over the last decade, its pretty much a dealbreaker at this point - nonconseual pvp = I wont even download it, much less spend money. Its the first thing I check before getting excited about any new game that may/may not be coming out.

    That being said, if we can get past the "But I want to kill ppl who are questing" mentality, there is a lot we could do here to add interesting, rewarding PvP to people who like it and even encourage others to step a foot in it by making it less of a 'complete loss/waste of regs/waste of potions/durability/etc.' situation. "Fun for the mouse too." If I go into a battleground on behalf of my faction, achieve a few objectives while getting killed repeatedly but still get something to show for it at the end, I'm more likely to do it. The obsidian trials is an example of a scenario where the losers get nothing at all - so there's no reason for them to keep showing up to be punching bags. The winners should absolutely advance whatever award schema more quickly, but if the losers get nothing except their time wasted, they will stop showing up to lose.

    We can talk about risk and reward all day, but if you create a scenario in which a player gets nothing for their efforts, they will put those efforts to something more lucrative. This goes for both sides of the fence. I agree PvP needs more incentives, but it needs more incentives for the winners and for the losers, otherwise you have what we have now, a handful of very good, very knowledgeable very skilled PvP players who have...nobody to fight. Trying to solve this problem by dragging non-interested parties into harms way is only going to cause resentment. Give us a reason to go do it - even if we lose - and some of us will.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  19. CatweazleX

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    You can have consensual PvP -> Be PvE flagged, ask other player for a duel. If ok right click that player and use the duel entry. Their should be at least players available in the group your are seemingly the speaker of. Of course without touching the gravestone.
    Feel free to organize such an event. Other players are also capable to organize and host events. Even PvP related ones.
     
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  20. kaeshiva

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    Yeah, I know we have this already. We have a lot of pvp stuff "already" but these conversations keep coming up, because PvP folks want more options. Consensual PvP absolutely already exists, nobody's been disputing that.

    We also have a lot of "no entry zones" unless you sign up for non-consensual pvp, even in blatant disregard to the "selective multiplayer" aspect of the game. As long as there's no reason for a PvEr to step in that scene (other than missing out on exploring it, I guess) - its tolerated. Its a delicate line to walk. If the PvE community feels like they must engage in PvP to achieve PvE related goals, then this quickly becomes a NC PVP game like so many others.

    If you said for example, harvesting an ore in a PvP scene gives double the ore? My next move is "uninstall." I don't play this to be a punching bag for other players, nor do I want to spend the time and effort to create a build, deck, gear to fend off nuisance players. I don't want to start a war or call in reinforcements or otherwise screw around - I just want to get my ore.
    I get zero enjoyment out of the pvp aspect when its "gank, cry, revenge", - nor do I enjoy tiptoeing around, having to leave the scene when someone comes in to annoy, etc. its not something I want to do, I'll simply play something else. Now, I know there are people who do enjoy this sort of thing, and that's totally fine. I think they should be free to do it - amongst themselves. If its truly about challenge and risk as they say, I don't even understand why they'd want to involve people who weren't interested.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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