Concerning harvesting in Novia

Lets face it : whats more boring and time consuming than harvesting ressources? Crafting ? ...Maybe lol but now we are talking about harvesting !
Lets compare with other harvesting system that unity 5 can offer (not talking about other engines because its pointless) and what can we ask to a 21st century video game.

The actual system:

You have your Tools equipped (but invisible from the outside), you double clic the ressource node (or the dead animal >> lets consider it as a ressource node also) and then you walk automatically on a predetermined path to start the harvesting animation. Then you Watch a progression bar ... and the evil RNG (random number generator) does the rest and says if you succeed or not. The speed , the success chance and the number of ressource obtained from the node are determined by trained skills.
So you need a specific node to harvest it: like in a forest, the game doesnt give you the ability to harvest all trees , or you cant harvest all the rocks in a mountain....I can understand that for specific nodes like silver or gold nodes where in fact you have to find and follow a vein but for trees in a forest or rocks in a mountain ??
The "autonavigation system" does often mistakes >> see unreachable nodes and all the bugs related to it every release!

What unity 5 can offer:

An active harvesting system! ALL ressource nodes can actively be harvested : you actively equip your tool (its now visible from the outside). One mouse clic = one "tool swing". then the game can chose : each "tool swing" can give a ressource or you get the ressource after a certain amount of "tool swings"(dev's choice)
More than that : EVERYTHING can be harvested that way: every tree in a forest, every rock in a mountain (for granite at least), every bushes, everything i tell you ! So all trees and rocks can be considerated as ressource nodes (as it should be).
Nothing is automated; no automatic navigation to the node. You can harvest it from whatever position as long as you are in range. We can even parameter the yield based on your skills and the way you actively harvest the node: you would get less wood if you are running around a tree instead of cutting it the proper way for exemple.
That way we can eliminate the RNG and truly (actively) role play the harvesting. Nothing random, just skills!!
No more watching to a progression bar during 10 seconds!
How cool would it be eh?

Dont dream! That system is possible and already exists (at least since 2014) >> the fact that you dont need autonavigation and specific nodes (every tree is considered as a node).
Add some cool animations and sounds and everyone will love to go out harvesting ! That would be a good 21st century harvesting system dont you think?

Thanks for reading this, i hope it will inspire you for finding a better harvesting system.

 

The trouble, that I see, with making every tree, rock, and bush into a node is that...well, in multiplayer you very quickly end up leveling the forest into a boring, flat plain (when it comes to harvesting trees, anyway.) Since trees are programmed to actually fall when harvested (something that I really appreciate - drives me nuts in other games when you harvest wood from a tree and it just...stands there, completely unaffected), making all trees fall would mean your dense forest quickly becomes a barren wasteland of tree stumps...and empty bushes and bare/busted rocks.

And from an economic standpoint, you'd be harvesting way faster/getting way more resources from a single scene. Now I'm all for more resources, but there also has to be a balance. And while creating balance seems like some sort of mystical sorcery to me, being a gamer with no knowledge of the number-crunching that has to go on behind the scenes during development, I do understand that the market would suddenly be flooded with logs, stone, and cotton. You can't even really lower the amount you get from the lower-level nodes, either, because you often get just 1-2 of a resource to begin with.

 

Balance, economy, numbers .... All those things will come after, im talking about the system. >> what do you prefer : watching a progression bar during 10 seconds, having a lot of bugs with those non reachable nodes, let the RNG play for you OR actively harvest what you need ??
I want to show that the active harvesting system exists and is totally possible with the unity5 engine, its working great.
It would be great that devs implement that.

 

Yeah I think we could find a much more creative way to gain crafting experience, I don't think the current system it's bad, but I do think there are few things that could easily change the perception of gaining crafting experience specifically. For instance when you get a meticulous chance each one of those should yeilds experience.

 

Having every tree and rock harvestable isn't realistic, unless you are crafting paper pulp, maybe not even then. Certain types of wood are good for bows, others are not. Even if you see ten of the right species, only a few will be the right age and straight enough. Rocks have different minerals, not all would yield what you want. Hunting for the right tree or rock is realistic and, for me, half the fun of the game. It is only in searching for the next node that I encounter creatures to kill for adventure xp. The distance between nodes regulates how I move and encounter all the other content in a scene (even if most of the content is wolves).

I don't mind RNG in harvesting either. Even if a tree/rock looks like the right type, you don't really know what you have until you cut/dig into it. I see the RNG as being about what you discover inside the node, not a reflection of how well you swung your pick.

You do make some other good points. Having to path to face a certain side of a node never made sense to me.

 

@Vidgrip Errrr you think watching a progression bar during 10 seconds and letting the fate of your harvest in the hand of the evil RNG is realistic ?? Do you think that in a forest with hundreds or even thousands trees around you can harvest only 10/15/20 trees total is realistic ?
I didnt ask that every tree or rock should be harvestable, its a possibility with the "active harvesting system". Im just asking to have a different harvesting system, more modern and close to "the standards of 21st century video games".

 

What does tree harvesting look like in the real world?

A group of people, teams of horses, a camp, lots of labor, supply trains, a lumber yard.

 

It's a good idea, but does come with challenges. It reminds me of when they talk about the ecology code they wrote for UO that no one ever got to experience because players essentially killed all living things everywhere all the time.

I would worry not only about the economy (probably fixable) but also about having scenes be devoid of rocks and foliage at all times due to zealous harvesters. As well, these two concerns are kind of diametrically opposed as increasing spawn rate to have the scene look nice floods the economy, and then vice versa.

 

TBH we need some games like this so we see what's coming on the planet we actually live in. "Like this" I mean the players make everything go extinct, and so sorry, no more harvesting for you.

And no, I don't want them to ruin SotA by doing it. But we are ruining the place that actually gives us life by doing it. When will we learn?

 

Would like it.
And about Balancing... pfff is there any atm?

What i would like more is less grind and materials more available to low and midlevel players.
I didnt start for serious crafting, because to much grind and some materials arent easy to get in the masses they are needed to feel a progress.
Silver, Gold, Iron for example are just available in t5 mines afaik.

But yes would like it.

 

It's not like there's any balance or realism now. The current system is absolutely boring to the max.

Mining could be an engaging and rewarding experience. It isn't. It's avoiding aggro and watching a progress bar. I personally hate it the way it is.

I understand that some system is necessary for crafting, however that doesn't make this system ideal.

 

Yes, that is what I think. That is why I said so. I understand what you are saying. I just disagree. We can do that here
Good thread you started, let's hear more opinions.

 

@Vidgrip Sure thing, everyone has his own opinion. Its just that i'm not satisfied with the current system which is not Worth a 21st century video game. Im trtying to show to people that other system exist and are totaly possible to implement technicaly so why not doing it ... Its just depending on the dev's will. So im trying to push a bit in that direction.

 

I do not wonder anymore people like watching a progression bar and grind 24/7 to the maximum and having fun doing this.
I would like to have fun too, but all of this is more or less destroying my fun.
But i can have fun playing the game.
But in a completely opposite way.

 

@Stundorn What do you mean by"all of this is destroying your fun" ? And what do you mean by "a completely opposite way"?

 

As I said in other threads, though this one is more fitting for it. Harvesting is boring. Craafting is bit worse, but every crafting starts with harvesting. It is game of watching progress bars. The active part is combat (that often does not make much sense, but almost every node is guarded for some reason, often by high tier enemies), not the harvesting. Harvesting is dull and boring, so tedious to watch those progress bars ,so much time wasted, and where is the fun in that? I want to have fun when playing the game, i want harvesting (and crafting) to be engaging experience. I want it to be more fun than real world harvesting (I also want combat to be more fun than the real world combat). I want it to be different each time so I have to adapt to each particular tree or rock. Something bots cannot do easily. I do nto want mines to be mined out by macroers and bots, I want players to have fun. And I want gathering to be strong on its own, you should not need to be high level warrior or mage to be allowed to mine or chop trees. You should be good at mining and chopping trees to get better yields, not be better at combat. Harvesting and combat should not be strongly tied together ,those two areas should be mostly independent. Of course crafters might use some rusty weapons as materials and fighters will enjoy getting brand new swords, those are links that make sense. Fighting off Elite archers to mine some iron and killing bears to get enough wood to build a shelf?

Anyway my main point is I want to have fun playing the game. I do not want to have fun by spending time in the game so I get better and can maybe get to play the game once I get to even higher level aand spend more time watching more progress bars. I mean of course I like games like Tetris where you get better as player, instead of levelling my character to get more straight lines and less Z-shaped tiles.

 

It is crazy how much of silver and gold ore you need to get enchanting and masterworking to decent levels... and how long it takes to mine all that. And after you finish levelling your crafting skills then you may attempt to craft something good and fail and try again... and if you try to be more crafter than fighter you have bad luck, because you need to fight a lot opf tough enemies to get your ores (or high tier resources).

 

@Gurney2 The whole grind isnt really fun to me.
I like to explore a scene and fight, but i dont like to repeat it and grind.
My way playing games like this is from an immersive RP point of view.
I try to create a framing story to go there or there, of course i visit places again, but i allways try to have a story cause and not the cause to push any skill.
About harvesting, yes i did go out to harvest things that i need to make a stool or a table, but to seriously craft i would have to grind things over and over.
I can do a story about it, but the measures of grind let feel this bad to me.
And it just does not feel right to harvest 20 trees to make one dinner chair.

I would like to see gameplay that would animate players to create story content and an environment that allow those creators to interact with the gameworld to experience this player created story content instead of only driving the measures higher and higher and push people to just run for numbers to kill the next mob who requires even higher numbers.

Your Idea for harvesting would make it more engaging and active and maybe it would reduce the grind and give people like me more time to play their role and create things instead of build their role.

I dont want timesink mechanics, although long termed settings are fine for me.
But what i recognize is that the balancing of the game - and harvesting is part of it- orientates only on players who go for achievements and less for creating, immersing, roleplaying...

 

@Net you read my mind, im about to write an article about crafting lol (but not today i think).

 

Because of that i already gave up.
It's no more about people who put in more hours and get more reward.
It's more like, you have to put those hours into it to have a feeling of a reward at all.

Playing casual and although i managed some of my problems i had fighting i still feel less progress (60-80) and dont see a lot of rewarding gameplay for me.

The most rewarding and fun thing in this game is or would be (unfortunately i have just very few people around who are willing to play this way) to play iC all the time, roleplay and create framing stories to do things like pve, pvp, harvesting, Crafting.

But the game ask us to develop further, to grind for a reward and hold the majority from creating stories and enliving the environment / gameworld.

Ofcourse people do Events etc... and some create those story content, but this allways just a part of some and more exclusive than Standard.
The Standard is grind, grind, grind and achieve, achieve, achieve.
Some, no the majority need it for competition and have fun doing this.
I dont. I am more into stories, immersion, roleplay and cooperation.

But to group up and coop a scene just for numbers isnt fun to me, it's neccessary from time to time but neither immersing, nor it feels i play a RPG where people roleplay together but a team race, astaffel run.
In short:
I would like to have things easier available and have more people creating storycontent and playing in and with the environment and less striving for higher levels and a "mighty" char.