Crafting Production Rates: Quality or Quantity

The plight of the apprentice could be addressed by weapons that require low skill to use are made by crafters with low skill. A crude sword made by a master craftsman would be equally useful to a new player as a sword made by a beginning craftsman. That being the case, the master wouldn't waste time making crude swords, but would instead make weapons requiring greater skill.

 

I like the idea of either a timed bar or something where you have to actively click or press something at the right time to craft successfully.
That or a more realistic system. By that I mean that to make a sword you start at the forge and smelt the metal and shape it, then use a barrel and cool it, then use a workbench to add a hilt, and then finish by sharpening. If this version of crafting was used then you could also increase the quality of the item being crafted by doing some of the above steps more than once, i.e: sharpening more than once to add damage or forging more than once to add durability. If these steps were done it would be much better to have some sort of prompt or "mini game" to increase quality, and if you fail so many times the item will break, with the "mini game" getting harder ads you increase in quality.


I think it's minor features like this that will help separate SotA from other games and help to form a solid playing experience for any play style.

 

I'm afraid that unfortunately would be too tedious for most players.. and it would require a special process not just for different kinds of weapons but pretty much every skill. You'd be basically making a separate craft system for every skill rather than one or two systems that can do everything.

 

But Bowen in many other MMOs you already have to go to a specific place or "forge" in order to make certain things or use certain skills.
This is just adding a little extra and making the crafting system actually mean something instead of being as you said "one or two systems that can do everything", all that is doing is making the whole crafting system generic and like very other.
The systems and interface to a crafting system like a described would not take that long at all to design and code, and the interface/GI could be done quickly and simply if need for alpha testing and use.

 

Not so simple I'm afraid if you have to recreate the mini-game over and over again. You can have a 'system' that does it all without being just like everyone else. I think it'd be easier to explain where I'm coming from if you just go here.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=craft-system-brainstorm

 

@Bowen
While I agree in general with your arguments, I'm going to take issue with the idea that everything has to appeal to "most" players. What's wrong with diversification?

As an example, in A Tale in the Desert, crafting takes many forms. Sometimes it's logical puzzles, sometimes repetition, sometime it's timing, sometimes it's visual acuity, etc. I don't like smithing but some do and are very good at it. I prefer making alloys and mining, others find it tedious. Once you combine it all the market has everything you'd need.

 

I would never advocate trying to please everyone all the time but striking the right balance of design to please as many as you can usually results in a better product. Is it better that 60% of crafters enjoy the crafting system.. or 45% do so? Of course you want everything to appeal to "most".. that doesn't mean it has to be mundane.

I think I'm sensing a little confusion though. I'm not suggesting that the process for every craft skill appear identical but I'm not inclined to explain all my ideas in detail over and over in multiple threads. I think there's plenty of diversity between crafts that have already been covered elsewhere but all using the same core mechanics.

 

As I understand your system, the various crafts would not be identical but they would all be variations on a theme. If this is the case, then you're right, the theme needs broad appeal. I also understand the difficulty of designing a separate system for each craft. What I'm suggesting is that you might have 60% of people interested in crafting, with 20% enjoying a logic based crafting, 20% enjoying dexterity based, and 20% enjoying a recipe system.

I'm inclined to favor more complexity/diversity in fewer crafts that a multitude of similar working crafts.

 

It's ultimately up to the dev team naturally but my inclination is that they'll lean towards whatever system they feel yields maximum effectiveness. In a similiar way we were discussing crests and maker's marks. I wanted an in-game designer. What we got is microtransactioned image importing.

If you consider the logic of that move it's quite good. It allows unrestricted customization but limits volume because of the microtransaction nature of it.. and they can impliment it with as little work as possible so they can focus on other things. Though I honestly worry about the workload of having to review all those submissions which is partly why I suggested the editor in the first place. Then again, submissions will also be limited to those who know how to produce the kind of image that will translate well into the game (ie w/ proper alpha channels etc).

But my point isn't just effective design.. I worry that elaborate mini-games will only appeal to the most hardcore crafter. They sound cool don't get me wrong.. but after your 100th+ time of going through it I think it'll lose its appeal for most folks pretty quick.

 

This is where the skill of the player come into play. Drawing again from A Tale in the desert: Foraging is a skill that you buy. It allows you to pick herbs. There are over 100 different herbs and 12 different ways of harvesting. At first it's slow going with continual referencing of an herb guide. Harvest enough of something and it get memorized by the game. As you continue to harvest you start recognizing things from afar. An experienced forager can harvest 10-20x the amount of a newbie.

Smithing requires hammering on a malleable item. Again, a skilled smith can knock something out in a fraction of the time it takes a newbie (or someone who just has no eye for it).

 

Here's the thing though Bowen. Ok say your right and people want to just click the button and wait for their 100 whatevers to be done crafting or forging, then they just made say 100 sword worth 10g in a matter of seconds. That's how the crafting systems and crafting "roles" or "jobs" in other games gets ruined and the market is flooded with items.

I am not saying DO MINIGAMES!!!! I am just suggesting something, ANYTHING, other than a simple click the button and wait method to crafting. This way items that are made have ACTUAL value and worth because they took ACTUAL time or skill to create even in game.

 

I'm not saying they should just be able to click and mass produce. Just there are other ways of managing output. I don't particularly care for the idea of instant mass production.

 

True enough : p.

 

It seems like there should be a way to throttle production based on elapsed time. i.e. I queue up 5 swords to be made and this is what my character does when I'm logged out in the shop...every 6 hours a swords gets made

Although the WoW crafting system is vastly less immerse, most professions have one or more daily cooldown crafts. So I can make one "bolt of superior cloth" per day. And something destined to be rare may require one or many of these.

 

Hmm, just thinking there should be the concept of give and take between speed, quality, cost. That would even everything out.