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Crime!

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by FBohler, Apr 3, 2021.

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  1. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

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    Compared to UO, the freedom of choice in SotA is somewhat low regarding criminal activities. Yes you can flag PVP but you can only touch those who flagged as well, and the open PVP scenes are few and overall unpopulated.
    In last friday stream (Apr/02/2021) @Chris shown little to no knowledge on the pickpocketing system, leading me to interprete that this side of the game is under developed / overlooked.

    To enable more criminal activities, first thing is to make every NPC "pickpocketable", with nice gold rewards based on how much gold they made lately and how often people steal them. Based on skill level and guards awareness, the thief can either get away or be chased by guards. If the criminal wants to fight back the guards, it may trigger a wave battle with good rewards. If players spot the thief, they can attack even if not flagged PVP. Criminals will be recognized for their long term actions and eventually get in the "most wanted" list for that town, so they'll be chased by guards and attacked by players. To get out of the "most wanted" list, pay a fine, wait for the heat to cool down or serve in jail (proportional for the crimes commited). If a player gets into too many "most wanted" lists, they'll become what we know as PKs, with full PVP even from unflagged people (except in lower level scenes, say Tier 5 and below).
    So benefits for being a criminal: gold and renown among players;
    Benefits for killing criminals: virtue, maybe some monthly prizes for the top 10 in the leaderboards.
     
  2. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

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    it is rather difficult to enjoy some criminal hunting when there are no criminals.
     
  3. SeyuNanatus

    SeyuNanatus Avatar

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    @FBohler - good idea.
    I like this idea :))
    But programming this system, need more time, test and balansing.
     
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  4. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

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    Yeah, it's probably difficult to code it into the game's already complex set of systems.

    One main concern I have is that the population in the game is very scarce, possibly leading to another empty feature. LFG style matchmaking could mitigate it though.
     
  5. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

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    Since @Chris is working on ransom this month. Maybe something that might be considered is creating bounty slips for players.

    Maybe when you die in PVP you can get an option to place a gold bounty on the person who killed you and that contract appears at bounty masters in game.

    So a person who becomes infamous enough to build a pile of bounties on their head will possibly draw the attention of a guild or dedicated group of PVPers to go and collect the bounty.

    Bonus points if somehow conditions could exist where a bounty slip holder can engage in PVP with their target flagged or not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  6. Sean Silverfoot

    Sean Silverfoot Avatar

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    If you can't get a great deal of people PvPing, what makes one think folks would want to get involved. Just a question.
     
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  7. Sorgin Txakal

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    Well, one of the top requested items in the poll was, "Make PVP more attractive to players & expand PVP scenes/mechanics".

    A large part of what keeps people away from PVP is there is no reason to do it, and the systems around it, in its current state, strongly discourage PVP through a very punishing learning curve with no in-game rewards even once you start on the journey to master it and seemingly none once you do.

    I know there will always be a subset of the player base that has no interest at all in PVP and there would never be a means of being able to make more money or xp PVPing than adventuring - but if Catnip intends to keep PVP in the game, then there needs to start being incentives for participating in it.

    From my experience in Star Wars: Galaxies, one of the most enjoyable moments were when a player in your adventure party had a bounty on their head and some bounty hunter player had tracked them down out in the middle of some random location and risked being opened flagged for PVP and assaulting a whole group of people in efforts to kill the one person.

    Likewise as someone who was learning the ropes of PVP, it was fun to get starting contracts for NPCs and then players as progressive rewards for increased skill.


    Another top request from players is more meaningful virtue decisions and impacts in the world. Having a bounty generated on you for committing crimes (both inside and outside PVP), and feeling the consequences of your actions should they start to accumulate, would be a good first step in making PVP rewarding and adding a feeling of effecting the world with your actions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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  8. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    This is a nice idea. As it is, Pick Pockets is only good for griefing other players.
     
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  9. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

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    I like the bounty slip idea.
    Trying to add some details to it: When the bounty reaches a certain value, they will send a magic bounty slip, which loosely tracks the location of the target. If the target stays in the same spot for too long (45 minutes, for example), their exact location would be disclosed to slip holders all around New Brittania. This would sure enable for thrilling and engaging PVP gameplay.

    PS: I think the bounty concept applies to both player driven (PVP) and NPC driven (robbing towns).
     
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  10. Mugly Wumple

    Mugly Wumple Avatar

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    Some good ideas here. I suggest that before you go too much further with the benefits, you analyze the ways that it can be abused. Because abuse will certainly happen. As Chris is wont to say," It's why we can't have nice things."
    One of the biggest worries is that a system will become a gold faucet and ruin the game economy.
    It's not a problem if all the gold comes from players, but as soon as the game starts creating gold then you have the possibility of inflation.
    Every faucet needs a sink; in other words, if you create gold you need to also create a way to destroy that gold and hope that they balance.
     
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  11. Sorgin Txakal

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    Well, considering that there isn't a single gold sink in the game currently as loot is flooding the market devaluing everything in game, most people use COTOs to upgrade their deeds to tax free and get commission free merchants, repair kits and artifacts for essence drop like rain, and even NPC merchant gold sinks are disappearing, I think we just need to embrace the lootening.


    Joking (mostly) aside, considering that the smallest subset of players within the game PVP, having some kind of reward, any reward at all, for PVPing I think improves the economy since PVP is the fastest way to incur armor repair bills and currently new armor/weapons & repair is the only thing that could be considered a real gold sink since it eats up ingots, essence, cotos, and repair kits.


    Edit: No hard feelings Elgarion if you are reading. While I love the PVP fishing and treasure hunting contests, those just reward for adventuring in a PVP scene, not for actively participating in PVP.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  12. Mugly Wumple

    Mugly Wumple Avatar

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    I learned a lesson at the UO Faire when talking to developers - for every idea presented the first thought in a dev's mind is "How will this be abused by the worst minded people."
     
  13. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

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    Yes. When making any suggestion for this game, when you have any idea, then now think about how your suggestion will be used to exploit the crap out of it. Because that is what is going to happen. That’s MMO basics 101.

    If you can come up with something that cannot be exploited, even better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  14. majoria70

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    Well one thing to help control some abuse is if it is a quest picked up by the player to participate in bounties. Just targeting anymore not willing to participate would cause problems. Pvp as with every core system we have in this game needs to have questlines to go a long with them. Sure players can find their own goals and reasons for doing things but the game should provide them too and this game has always done a very poor job of providing any.

    Thus players seeking direction wander aimlessly wondering what to do and eventually quit the game in search of another game with game generated directions and goals advising them of the more reasons to play included with the game.
     
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  15. Sorgin Txakal

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    Well, people can create an endless supply of free alts to kill for free bones, deeds, quest items, etc. Exploits already exist in spades.


    I just find it off-putting when any time someone suggests a way to improve the PVP experience someone always comes in to find a reason to shut down the conversation.


    Yes, exploits will exist, some will be mitigated, some probably won't, but the whole concept of a bounty system is a counter balance to people doing unscrupulous things for profit.


    Not sure what "exploits" could exist that don't already exist in game.
     
  16. Alleine Dragonfyre

    Alleine Dragonfyre Avatar

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    It's actually something that technically is already in the game but it's unfinished in the way that is being discussed here.
     
  17. Vesper

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    Short of the simple act of pickpocketing, none of this exists in game. Most of it is a good idea, since ransoms are a failed endeavor in general, and activity increases every time they're turned off. As suggested pickpocketing from NPCs with the consequence of player bounties is a terrific idea.
    Will be a long term goal at best I'm sure.
     
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  18. FBohler

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    Only a game without features will be safe from exploits.

    As already stated, the gold faucet can be tuned to return a fraction of the gold paid by players to NPCs.

    Even cooler, commiting crimes in POTs would return fractiom of the taxes paid.
     
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  19. Vesper

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    In time, this all makes sense
     
  20. Womby

    Womby Avatar

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    In general, bounties are exploitable. A player could accumulate large bounties and then have a friend or alt collect on them. To avoid that the cost to the criminal should exceed the bounty awarded, otherwise it becomes a way to generate free gold.
     
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