Dealing with cards?

The problem being, of course, that the basic combat mechanics should be intuitive and fun, not a challenge that needs to be adapted to or overcome. Leave the challenge to be provided by fun and engaging enemies, quests, interesting skill choices, etc. and NOT a base game mechanic.

 

The pedantic rhetoric is at an all time high.

All the MMOs I play have hotbars that are hidden. I use a keyboard, no hotbars on screen.

And call it glyphs or cards or whatever you want to hide the fact they are in a stacked deck being drawn out one at a time in a randomly sorted order.

 

The problem with THAT, is that the challenge is in taking this system, and molding it to my playstyle, which is entirely possible. The fun, well, that is already there for me. I don't need access to every single skill immediately to make it enjoyable for me.

The skills are all there, and if you work the system they have provided for you, then they are all accessible... perhaps not instantly, but very nearly so.

 

Ahh well that's where I disagree. I think this system actually adds another facet to the gameplay itself and isn't just a basic system of click this and click that. Now you have the added feature of developing decks and finding new skills and augmentations. Lots of fun for those that like that kind of thing.

 

And for those that dont, tough?

Its not really an added feature that is optional, it is a required gameplay element for a large portion of the game, especially single player.

But I am sure since the the whole premise of this game being made is that it is based on community feedback, through intelligent discourse, not dismissal, we will either see some adaptation to the ideas of those that dislike this system, or end up with another bunch of threads that want to burn the world.

 

But without the "twist" of the deck system we would get a standard WoW-like combat system and that is neither intuitive nor fun.
I really don't want such a combat system that is repetitive and boring and which would add to SotA being less unique and becoming more and more a standard-(MMO)RPG.

 

Then just do the basics to get your deck up...I guess I meant the min maxers....

Look, you can stamp your feet and rage against it or you can help make it better.

Your choice really.

 

Exactly.

Some of you have.

It is the ones out there who have decided to become wall flowers for this situation that I am looking at.

If I were a dev on this project, put out a system that I KNEW was somewhat controversial for the players/backers to test, and saw your post saying you had not tried (and would not ever try) said system... I think you can guess how much weight I would assign to your viewpoint.

Just sayin'...

 

I haven't gotten to play yet, so I'm unsure of the system, though I'm concerned with my ability to keep track of everything. Multi-tasking is not my strong suit.

But we should keep in mind that the locked version is getting extra penalties right now to encourage experimentation.

If they follow the original plan (which is way old and may have no bearing now ) then the only real drawback of locking your bar will be no access to combos. If they go that route, both types of combat could be viable. At least I hope so.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love deck building systems. I play Magic the gathering a lot, and I played Battleforge a ton as well and had a lot of fun with it. I am not advocating a complete return to a traditional, 'boring' hotbar system.

The idea of a deck building system is good, but the implementation needs to change drastically because right now its too random and does not fit in to MMO combat at all. Its a terrible mechanic the way it currently sits. As I said above, it punishes you for diversifying and not building a deck with just a small selection of offense skills. It punishes you if you want to play with different weapons, or have utility spells with your offense. Yes you can lock skills but again, you pay for it with increased focus cost and cooldown.

If this system is kept, with the same mechanics of deck building and dealing out cards randomly, I think you should have 2 or 3 hands. One for offense, one for Defence, and maybe one for utility or sometime. Have each hand only 5 cards or whatever and deal each type of skill to those hands. That way you could still have the randomness, strategical play of building decks and reacting to what you have, but at least you would have some more control over being able to use defence when you need it, utility when you need it, offense when you need it, etc. etc.

 

As far as I know, you can have more then one "saved" deck. So changing weapons etc shouldn't be that hard. Now, as for diversity you can have as many skills as you want really, that however will limit how many can come out.

Also, thinking along that line, whats to stop having as you level the ability to gain static spell/ability slots that always come up? This system is being tested and new, if you can think of ways to make that work, then feel free to share them

This is no more random then, say, dominion the card game.

 

.... isn't that what I just did?

 

haha yes...I meant more

 

Eh, its a pretty awesome system and even in the current state a lot of fun...

 

Sounds reasonable.... but It's hard to convince friends to come take a big bite of something they know they won't like.

"I don't like Brocclii!"

"But I covered it with Brussels sprouts! Oh you're just being unreasonable."

The truth is, if something is so big a turn off that people are already walking away from it without trying it, then that SHOULD carry some weight with the devs. That it isn't even interesting in a sense of curiosity for an audience of people who enjoy exploration and adventure is noteworthy.

As for me, I didn't think I would like it. I've tried it. So far, I don't. If it stays, I won't. It's not a threat, or an ultimatum, it's letting the devs know that this is a deal breaker for me. That holding my nose through a horrible combat system isn't acceptable even with all the other parts of the game I really really like and want to see succeed.

Could something change my mind? I want to see Garriott post that this is the combat system he likes, that he wants, and that he feels epitomizes the combat he thinks makes his world believable, because I, like many of us, backed a man more than a game. His ideals of design and world craft inspired many of us to do great things with our real world lives and if this is something he feels fits that mold where baking bread, sitting in chairs, full text conversations and no ! quest markers is important enough to dump resources into for world design, then I'm the one missing something with this system. Because I don't see how worrying about interactive lights jives with having skills you know how to do be made unavailable to you for reasons not based on the circumstances of the situation, but because one of the devs thought it would be 'fun'.

 

I have no Problems with the card system except it needs work but so does every other system in the game and thats ok for the short time of its development PVP .. for this being first pass excellent! I can not believe it worked as well as it has. *Bows to Dev Team*

People hate change , It would be nice if more embraced it ,especially when it adds a new Positive twist to a Stale system.

 

You know we're lucky we're even getting this game at all.

Port was founded with VC money to make social media games prior to the Zynga and social game market crash (just goes to show how much VC funders actually know about the gaming market, but I digress)

I don't know the details, but you can read between the lines a little and realize that SoTA came about as a way to get Portalarium out of some trouble related to that. The kickstarter video used off the shelf assets and there was barely even a game back in march 2013, just the back end systems used for other social games that nobody plays, like Ultimate Collector.

The fact that within a year they got this far on such a limited budget and using an engine that nobody ever had really built a big MMO in before is actually somewhat amazing, so we should all reflect on that a little bit when it comes to what we're getting.

 

Ok, I can see your point, and as far as you having tried it, I applaud that. You have done more than a lot of your compatriots that have simply sat on the bench and loudly voiced their opinion on something they haven't given a second glance.

I'm one of those people that RG's worlds, ethics and philosophies have influenced, and in this, I see a system that is infinitely more flexible than a lot of others out there that seem to have become de rigueur.

Does it need some work? Yup! A LOT of it... as there are a few things I see in play right now that need to be addressed that none of the as-yet unavailable skills will apparently address.

Have they said that if it is unpopular, they would design something else? Yes... but I fear for your side of the debate after reading the responses thus far.

Which is sad, because I hate to see anyone leaving this project, regardless of the reason.

 

I don't hate change at all. I was looking forward to something different and original. In fact, I can't think of one Kickstarter backer who wanted a standard mmo style combat system. Simply randomizing skills was not at all what I had in mind as being different, original or ground breaking.

 

This comes from my heart as well. It's somewhat mind boggling that the same creator of the immersive worlds of Ultima would think that card combat is consistant with his past work.