Death Losses while PVPing are suppose to be none.

Good questions. I do not PvP but to me Decay on PvP death would discourage PvP, Decay upon death would make PvP tourneys less popular. Would I risk hours and hours or exp grind just to go PvP? NO, I would not .

And if you agree that it would nave a negative impact on PvP, then how in the world would it be any different for PvE. It absolutely is the worst system no matter whether it were or is PvE or PvP. Either way it discourages any kind of play and specifically Group/Party play.

I do believe that the Loss of Exp upon Death is going to continue for PvE then it should also be put in for PvP. How can you justify additional resources, etc. for PvP areas and justify it on Risk vs. Reward and define the basic Risk to be Death when the actual punishment for Death is only in PvE. Something sounds totally upside down to me.

 

I take issue with this. If someone was gaming the system which they would have to be marcoing to do what you are suggesting then they would be banned. If they are pvp flagged in mmo (which is the only place the flag gives bonuses) you have yet to give any reason other then a risked of needed to ban more people.

 

Because PVP doesnt generate exp and decay is about exp. PVP has decay already in it which is the ransom system. Since gold is the only thing we get from each other that is our decay. I'm not sure what additional resources you are talking about. Certainly not crafting stuff no one in their right might would go to a pvp zone for gathering with how few nodes there are. If you are talking experience let do the math. A pvper and a pver are playing for 2 hours. The pvper spends one hour pvping and one hour pveing to earn 330000 (10% more then pve in one hour). The pver only fights monsters for 2 hours and recieves 600,000 exp. PVP at the moment is all risk and no reward.

 

Exactly.

 

You can take issue with it all you want however you have not contradicted my point at all.
But in the interest of fairness i'll rebutte your rebuttal.

First off, no, you don't need to macro. It's trivial to have two or more accounts running side by side and control both without them. I can list over a dozen people that pve on one account and mine on another at the same time, sans macro.

Second off, Atos said in i believe 2 telethons ago that multiboxing is legal upon being questioned, so this isn't even a big hypothetical but something that people have actively asked about. So you literally would have nothing to ban anyone about, because it is "using the system as it was designed" unless you want to argue it's "against the spirit" and is an exploit, which brings us to...

Third, we don't even have the staff manpower to properly deal with bots, and we've seen how well exploits are dealt with (see all the past exploited exp) even when staff know about it and can easily watch for it. Something like this would be a huge murky grey area of argument over "I wasn't exploiting, this is how i always play, not my fault your system isn't making me die".

If you are going to suggest alternative systems, you can't just say "Well we just punish people who break the system". No, you design a system that isn't broken out of the box. Anytime you relegate a problem with a system's design to being a "human issue", you tie up staff manpower, when instead you can design the system better in the first place.

So with that said, what are some ways we can constructively help narrow down some rules that are currently erroneously doing pvp deaths, that should not be?
The more concrete examples you can provide atos et al, the better they can ensure it works properly going forward.

 

If killing blow from any kind of damage is from pvp then no xp loss.

 

don't get me wrong, i completely understand

 

If death by fall is caused by knock backs, confusion, or any skill that changes the control of a character no exp loss and kill count goes to the person who cast the spell that resulted in the death
If death by fall within 1 min of pvp action no exp loss and death count goes to the last person that attacked. (This gets rid of the reason for people to commit suicide to grief pvper's kill counts. You can still run but if you suicide count goes to the attacker)
If death by death over time spell no exp loss kill count goes to attacker.
If direct damage attack causes death no exp loss (already working)

 

If I die in PvE to a trap, a hole in the ore cart tracks, falling off just about anything of major height, have the Troll in the Rise Confuse me so I run off the edge of the Bringe. That combined with all the other traps thaey intend to put in and they do not generate Exp either but I still pay the loss of Experience Points and decay. Those as I understand it are part of the discussion in this post where just as long as you are marked PvP you should not lose any Experience points no matter how you die.

I'd gladly pay a ransom in gold to keep my Experience Points and not have to continually keep doing the same thing over and over again ending up exactly where I started every day. That is what is called "Decay", not losing a little gold.

I have no idea where you are getting the numbers that say those who PvE are making 600,000 Experience points in 2 hours. The only ones I know of capable of doing that are those who have well over or close to 100 GM's or equivalent, and they do it by doing major bosses Solo. In essence the average player who plays on average for 2 - 3 hours per day is more than likely lucky if they have 20 skills at GM, and quite a few far less or close to 80. And of those 20 GM's probably 5 are in Crafting related skills. If they die they may only lose 65,000 - 75,000 on the first death but will spend close to 1 hour making back what they lost in an area they feel confident they will not die again. So begin the day, Die in fisrt 10 minutes. Spend next 1 hour making back what was lost. Spend next 50 minutes getting enough Exp to cover the next death. Log Off. Log on the next day, die in first 10 minutes etc, rinse and repeat. The only way to get ahead is to never adventure, never explore and stay in areas where one will not die.

 

Agreed decay is bad in PVE that's a different discussion though. Decay in pvp is already not suppose to be there so we are talking about where it is still there and needs to be removed. I was using a flat exp number to show the difference between a pvper and a pver. You can change the numbers any way you want it still comes up with pvp being a net loss. 300k/hr is like the minimum I make in teams of 6 per hour in pve which is where I got the number from.

 

I stopped playing heavily months ago. And barely play casual.
14 gms? Couple crafting. Adv level 91.
300k n hour is what i pull solo in friends mode.. no variables.

I can pull 900k+ in a duo in the right conditions.

Juust an fyi.

 

Congratulations. So where do you go to make 300Kper hour SOLO, if you do not mind me asking?

Either way however I think you prove a point. Maybe it is the skills, you have that allow you to do a certain area SOLO to get that much Exp. and that is fine. My point is that I believe that is the exception not the rule. Just the sheer fact that you can get 900,000 in an hour DUO, (Guessing that is with someone with a lot of GM's or equvelent), says that the system is not working.

Is there anywhere that the Devs stated in writing that losing Exp Points on Death was a Death penalty? They may refer to it that way at times but it is my understanding that the Experience Loss upon Death was designed to replace a Hard Cap with a Soft Cap and that the Experience Point Loss upon Death is that Soft Cap.

Trouble is , it is not working. When someone who plays 2 - 3 hours per day can barely stay even in Experience Points while those who play longer or even shorter and can make 900,000 Experience points in an hour then somewhere the system is broken. The System was supposed to be designed so those who have a large number of GM's would start losing Skill Points because they could not keep up with the Experience Loss because it was so high. Instead what is happening is that those who have the large number of GM's are not dying nearly as often as mid-level players They are also making so many multiples in Experience Points above mid level players that the gap keeps widening between the two not level off.

The fact that those with high numbers of GM's or those capable of making 900,000 Experience Points per hour are happy with the existing system tells a lot. I wonder how they would feel if they had to make up 10,000,000 Experience Points every time they died? My guess is the System would disappear the next day.

 

There's no easy way to fix the problems detailed in the OP; everything I can think of could be abused in one way or another.

Personally, I'd prefer the complete removal of skill decay, anhks inside dungeons and limited loot PvP.

The penalty for death in PvE could be being booted to the entrance of the dungeon. (Edit: meant to say unless you can get a quick enough rez from a friend)

The penalty for death during PvP should be that you lose everything you're carrying, and are also sent to the world map to take you out of the fight if you can't get a quick enough rez.

This is really the only way I can figure out to fix people's complaints about the game being 'too grindy.' More risk, more reward, less time sink.

With this idea you would have no more decay, no more rezkilling, and less standing in one spot killing the same stuff over and over, as dying would make you need to claw your way back in. Also, level design would be a whole new world. (lol pun) I never really liked anhks inside dungeons..

 

Everything can be abused that's not really the issue. You can't program to every possible abuse that just makes a game suck to 99% of the player base. I have no complaints about the game being grindy. It's meant to take a lot of time to get up high in level and you have to work on it. PVP is not about leveling. If we want to make things in PVP give a lot more experience so that an hour pvping = an hour pveing in gaining experience then we can equalize decay costs to both. Until then however we will need to make Role playing and dancing cause experience loss and chance to die and crafting to have a chance to die then they would be equalize. (sarcasm)

 

I don't see how more dancing is going to help anything.

This whole thing started because you chose to tango!

 

Yea u can pull 300 to 350k from wyrmsands elite skelis easily.
400k seq skelis.

Thats not even high compared to what a lot of people do.

 

Pick axe in the face! Loose 300k exp!

I also propose decay hits crafting pool. Maybe then some peoole might love decay like i do.

 

Pvp flagged, multi, wyrmsands, kill the ghost corpion so you have more skeles to kill, I was able to get 600k an hour.

 

I think it's safe to say that IF decay should continue to be a thing, it should not be triggered on death.

And neither does role-play... one has to wonder why is there leveling in the first place?

 

I can't wait till they implement crafting decay.. I'm sure this would change many others minds in our direction...

Remove decay!!!