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Death Penalty is Too Low

Discussion in 'Release 51 Feedback Forum' started by Black Tortoise, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. Black Tortoise

    Black Tortoise Avatar

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    So once again, the death penalty has been nerfed to be so low it feels pointless. I can now casually die a lot (note: I dont actually do that ;) ) and it matters little for my play experience. The free exp on login is nice, esp for a more "casual" player like myself - but I think the death penalty should at least be equivalent for an adventurer level 50-80 player.

    Id like the game world to feel like it has borders and boundaries that challenge me to use strategy. Right now my experience is like "if its yellow, stab it. if its a pile of yellows, might have to pay attention a little while stabbing." There are so many counter measures and tactics to use to flee and save one's self - these are good things! Make them more meaningful, please!

    Personally, I want corpse retrieval and full loot to be a thing. The game world is way too safe and secure with the current death penalty. Id like to have to respect the environment some more, rather than brazenly charge into everything while actively chatting on 2nd monitor and watching movie on 3rd. All dying does, right now, is make me walk back to the same place and continue killing the thing I was killing right away.

    Right now 2, sometimes 3, monster kills = the same exp I lost when I die. A few weeks ago it was like 4-5 kills. Back when the death penalty was a bit more meaningful, I could lose a whole hour of play from dying. That was a great way to get me to respect the game world, pay attention to what Im doing, and force an actual strategy and skill when fighting. Now I feel like I can afk while fighting!

    Please bring back the old death penalty circa 3-or-so releases ago. Or, find other ways to make death meaningful. Ideas:

    * all non pledge/add-on store/reward items stay on corpse when dead. must be looted from corpse on rez.
    * debuff that causes 80% greater armor / weapon durability loss for n-mins (30 mins?)
    * loss of all buffs, including food, blessings, obsidian potions, etc (this alone is not enough!)
    * humanoid monsters have % chance to loot your corpse of 1-2 items or gold
    * gold drops from your pockets
    * heavy duty stat debuff that basically makes you not fight for a while. go fishing, or dont die!
    * significant exp loss (like 5% or something, scaling up if you die within the same hour)
    * monster, or whole class-of-monster, that killed you gets big buff against fighting you again (they got a confidence boost from your last death)
    * you have to leave the scene to rez, sort of like finding a wandering healer in UO. maybe youre sent back to your bind point!
    * all or some of the above :)

    E-Z mode FTL! :p

    /me awaits downvotes and depopularizations
     
  2. FrostII

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    How many xp's do you lose on your 1st death in 24hrs @Black Tortoise ?
     
  3. 2112Starman

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    This isnt UO and open loot for all is one of the things that almost killed UO before they introduced Fel. Since then, I dont think any game has done it. Its just not feasible in games, people want it less then our current death tax (which I continue to say does not effect me because I dont die).

    The easiest way to end all the death complaining could be said in one sentence. Simple give people a hour long, 1/4 (in game) xp nurf . Stop taking stuff away, nobody... except a very small and very vocal set of people want anything "taken" away.
     
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  4. FrostII

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    That I could live with.

    Yea, I've heard of people like that.... The "hurt me, hurt me..... hurt me more" group.
    If Port's not more careful, they're gonna hurt themselves right out of what could be a fantastic game otherwise..... IMO
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  5. FrostII

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    So you can kill 2 or 3 "monsters" and get back your death xp penalty ! What sort of "monsters" are these, @Black Tortoise ?
     
  6. the Lacedaemonian

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    If you aren't losing experience, it probably means you're not as advanced as you think you are. Losing 100k++ experience per death is becoming more significant as players soloing large amounts of experience per hour has become a little tougher.

    The experience loss reduction in masteries is great, but most players at or beyond adventure level 100 still have large amounts of XP in more than 2 trees.

    Just imagine how much experience players like Mac, Sara Dreygon, and Andartianna lose per death. If you think paying 500k to 1M XP per death is reasonable, you're probably not putting YOUR XP up for the loss.
     
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  7. Elnoth

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    Please don't use Mac Sara or Andartianna as a benchmark, they are the top 0.01% of the game and not representative of the vast majority.

    My main is Ad lvl 100. I died on the first pull of the rise mage room yesterday and lost 80k XP. It took basically one clear and 10 mins to get all that XP back. My alt is Adv lvl 63, a death costs 3k XP and takes one pull of 3 standard mobs in a 5 skull zone to get all that back (and he comfortably clears T5 content).

    Specializations basically cut my decay penalty to about 1/3 of what it used to be, which sounds great, but it means I don't really give a damn about dying again, so it isn't really a penalty.
     
  8. Greyfox

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    A very simple solution OP. If YOU want to experience more XP loss on a death just sacrifice yourself a few times until you feel beaten enough. Then die once more for good measure because YOU ARE A BAD BOY.

    I know several people who quit playing this game specifically due to the XP loss associated with death in this game. If you want to be hurt, go for it. Don't demand others suffer to appease your masochism.
     
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  9. Mykll

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    People will just dance in a corner for an hour. But if you made it where your next X amount of experience is made at 1/4 rate, then there is no way around that, other than usual ways around getting experience. Next death a smaller amount of 1/4 experience rate is added, etc.
     
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  10. jammaplaya

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    I have to agree with the OP on this one. Even as a casual player of a mere Adv level ~84 (last time I checked) the loss of experience is too little to matter. I earn it right back no problem plus massive extra per death.

    The decay system however is a horrible tool for making death matter, because it also carries the adverse effect of making people uncomfortable about adventuring outside of areas where they're confident they won't die.

    Let's be honest here. Decay is Statloss. Nobody likes statloss. In UO, statloss is primarily a tool used to discourage player killing, yet here on SotA it's being used as a punishment for simply playing the game. Total bass ackwards logic in this mechanic. It's steps backwards from where we were 20 years ago. Trust me when I say that in my entire gaming experience, statloss is the most hated mechanic of all time by everyone.

    That said, I firmly believe that full loot/full PvP is the only logical way to balance an MMO. With full loot full PvP, you don't need to have AI guarding every node from botters because PKs would be doing that. Also, it wouldn't take 2 days to craft a set of platemail because the game would be designed around losing equipment really easily to PKs. Every single economic problem this game has is due to it not being a full MMO with full PvP and full looting privileges.

    The only downside to full PvP is that it's not popular, with the overwhelming majority of gamers being too afraid to try it out or too inept to adapt to it. But really we have plenty of grandmothers playing over on UO:Forever who aren't afraid to get PKd once in a while and are enjoying the economic benefits, such as crafting being viable on it's own and people constantly needing to restock gear from their vendors.
     
  11. Greyfox

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    While stat loss is the most hated game mechanic, I'd argue full loot PVP is a very close second to the most hated.

    Why do we want to hit our heads with iron pans? Stat/Level Cap solves all the problems. Gear is wearing out already and takes care of the gear loss due to PVP.
     
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  12. jammaplaya

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    No argument here. That's largely part of why I felt confident in backing this game as a selective multiplayer. But a selective multiplayer where everyone gets statloss?? Now you've lost me :p

    If you choose to PvP, you get bonus experience. So it would make sense to me that death during PvP would lead to lost exp to counterbalance the exp bonus.

    As for death during non PvP, I have always wanted just to be kicked back to the entrance. That's what makes the most sense to me for dungeon crawlers to need to restart their crawl and fight their way back in.

    But taking experience from someone who might die during an activity where they weren't even gaining experience at the time doesn't make any sense from a balancing point of view. You could just fall off your house and die, losing exp while you weren't even gaining any, and that doesn't speak much to proper balancing.
     
  13. Sara Dreygon

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    If I was unable to even spend 87 million to raise my blades another 10 levels I'm not even sure I'd be playing anymore.

    I play to advance my character and hit goals I set for myself... the soft cap is already fairly hard but not so much that I stop improving and get bored with no progression.

    As far as the OP, after specializations I still lose about an hour worth of killing which isn't to much but it is getting close to where I could get unlucky and go backwards on a given night. As far as whether it should be higher depends on its purpose. Is it to keep me from spending 87 million to raise my damage 3.2%, to add incentive to not die, to balance the playing field some, etc. because these all have to balanced against casual players not progressing due to a daily death, the feeling of losing progress, not attempting dangerous content due to risk, etc.

    I have no easy answer but see both sides. I do know I gain very little now for a good amount of effort and would even without decay due to the hard soft-cap so the playing field is closing even if I don't die.
     
  14. Quenton

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    For a new player that has trouble surviving combat, even gaining XP while not dying is a pain. Dying while trying to gain that XP is a nightmare.
     
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  15. Pawz

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    OP wait till you're a higher level, you won't be getting your exp back from a few kills.
     
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  16. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    With specializations death decay is finally where it should be = balanced. And you can only choose 2, so every other skill tree does 100% death decay,
     
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  17. FrostII

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    @jammaplaya
    When I was AL 84 it wasn't that big a deal to me either (although the entire concept is absolutely the most asinine, counterproductive mechanic ever brought to an adventuring game in the entire history of games - to say the least).
    So, now that you're AV 84 - do you plan to proceed beyond AL 84 ? If you do, then I wouldn't be so quick to say that "the loss of experience is too little to matter" - because it will, and you'll be eating your words.

    We are, however, in agreement on your points (below):
    After that you go into a diatribe about PvP and full loot - and once again we disagree completely.
    Oh please........
    *Or became sick of it in UO and other MMO's.*

    Death decay xp loss - matters to many if not most.
    The fact that many players hate it enough to quit and others that are close - SHOULD be enough for Port (ie Chris) to get the f**k rid of it before it's too late....
    That leveling plateau he spoke of - is already reached via the current diminishing returns soft cap, and this dumb-ass death penalty makes absolute zero sense to damn near everyone here playing.

    Now I'll wait for this thread to be locked - like others before it.....

    And finally, with all due respect......Wake up Port ! Before there's nothing to wake up to.......
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  18. Onyx

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    Give me a break, @FrostII
    You have such a gentle way of saying you aren't happy with that which you don't like. Maybe @Chris will see it your way this time. Ya think? Do I like death decay? Nope. But I understand what he is trying to accomplish and agree with the concept. What they have developed (and continue to refine) seems to be the best way forward to me. Some will not agree.
     
  19. FrostII

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    And what exactly would that be, @Onyx ?
     
  20. FrostII

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    @Onyx
    You may not believe this, but - all in all - I run with a very positive outlook on most things. I'm here mostly because of my guild friends and we spend a lot of time together in Discord laughing at just about anything.
    Much of that laughter has been removed in reaction to this death penalty.

    We all used to be up for anything on any given night, but the death penalty has changed all that.
    Our fun "adventuring" has all but come to a halt. @Lord British
    People hesitate to join for fear of death and having to RE-GRIND progress already ground......

    I have to be blunt, forgive me please, but just how stupid and counter productive is that ?

    Bottom line: It really doesn't matter if Chris's intentions are the most wonderful in the world.... If ENOUGH people aren't having fun because of a single mechanic, then that mechanic should certainly be removed - before the recipients of it remove themselves from it.

    And this is coming from a guy with many, many 1000's of hrs here...
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018