Decay Removed

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Daigoji Gai, Oct 12, 2018.

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  1. xadoor

    xadoor Avatar

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    GOT HYPERBOLE?

    "desparately hope" you are as bad as the "I'll quit crowd" on both sides.

    Its somewhat fair to assume that the forum population represents the overall population. Certainly not guarenteed.

    This issue has been steady coming up in very emotional threads at least monthly.

    None of the leeroy jenkins crap is happening. At least I'm not seeing it. The rewards just not there for it. Its just a bunch of "sky falling" and "I'll quit" crap on both sides. IF it happens there are other ways it can be dealt with but lets try it Chris's way for a while and see what actually happens instead of all flaming the other side and "desperatly" hoping for change before we know the impacts of the current change.
     
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  2. Dulayne

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    Yup gear plays a big role in it. There is the premise that you should consider that "few extra exp" to gm most of your skills if not all in a tree. Them single levels multiplied by the 10+ skills in the tree could lead to an extra attunement point too.
     
  3. Steevodeevo

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    LOL I am smiling right now. This is why I love forums sometimes. It remains after many years using forums amazing to me what rocks peoples worlds sometimes. I DESPERATELY HOPE about a lot of things in life. It's just the way I am. wouldn't wish to be any other way. If I KINDA WOULDN'T MIND a change, it would be pretty dull.

    I agree with you, I haven't seen much Leeroy Jenkins so far - but we may soon 'if' the consequences are close to zero, wasn't that the posters point?
    I'm not sure ditching exp loss on death is 'Chris's way' I'm not sure its even Ports way, I think they feel pressured to do it. In the end if they decide its needed for the game to survive, even grow, so be it. They can even bring some 'core' stuff back they have ditched along the way if the game starts to grow and revenues improve. I'm thinking regional economy here for one example.

    I'm not sure the use of one emotive world puts me in an 'extreme' camp, but just in case it isn't clear, yes you're right I am. I'm in the stick to the original design concepts camp. Actually that is not quite right.. sorry, I'm in the DESPERATELY wanting Port to stick to the original design concepts camp :) .
     
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  4. Chrystoph Reis

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    Only time will tell, but it has not worked out that way in my long experience. Like I said , you don't NEED decay, but it challenges players not to be stupid. I am one of those people that die and lose tons of EXP. It doesn't stop me from bringing newbies along, or spend time in mindless UT, especially since they made double EXP the norm. Only reason I use to go there was a lot was because of double EXP weekends. With that not needed, I go do what I want to do. My main is 111, the other 3 are 91, 90, and 85. Only times I got to UT now are to power level certain skills. Can't even do that because of the 100+ groups... (which I refuse to join)

    So I go solo or drag my lower level guildies along. Losing EXP when people have 10s of millions? I remember before release having 1mil pooled was a luxury and taking MUCH bigger decay hits. Didn't affect what I or my guildies did for hard content. Still doesn't.

    Only reason to bank that much XP is to level up for... well UT it seems like. And having partied with a lot of these high UT players, I can tell you they are garbage players. Why? Imo because they are more worried about stacking EXP and running in like dummies than learning how to beat something.... EVEN with all that banked EXP. Bad players aren't made better by removing decay. They are just allowed to level up faster and mess up higher level groups.

    So we can agree to disagree. Also I said it is NOT needed, but... you see the results I the quality of parties, form those with no fear. This is not SOTA exclusive behavior.
     
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  5. kaeshiva

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    Glad it didn't stop you from doing stuff. But there are a lot of people who really hate mindless grinding as a cost to entry, whom it absolutely stopped from doing stuff.

    I actually agree with you, re: challenging players not to be stupid thing. I absolutely think there needs to be some sort of death penalty in place so that people learn the game, their skills, their deck, and progress as players. For me, the enticement of being able to do a new challenge, or to play more efficiently, has always been enough of a carrot for me to "get better" - some people do not respond well to negative reinforcement. More times than I care to count I have seen players - invested players, long-term players - rage-logoff after a death that's set them back pretty much everything they did that day. I do not feel this was healthy for the game in general.

    You're right, UT and Double changed things - considerably - to where the XP loss was trivial - IF you decided to enlist for the grind tax. Something I really abhor doing - grinding - but I'll do it if there's benefit it in it, ie I gain some XP to level some things. Doing it just to replenish an arbitrary drain I find extremely distasteful.

    They weren't made better by having decay, either. If decay was actually doing what it was intended to do, I would see some merit in keeping it around.

    I'm not fundamentally disagreeing with you on the need for there to be something that encourages players to not die, and not just hit buttons willy nilly.
    I have just always firmly believed that forced-grind, permanent setback xp-repayment has never been a good answer. I'm much more likely to not participate in something that will cause me to die, than to participate knowing I'll be facing UT just to break even in my near future. That's basically spending time to achieve nothing - and half or more of that time is spent doing something I don't have fun doing.

    I'm interested to see what will happen. I don't think everyone will just get stupid and reckless overnight because there is no penalty - its a good way to not get invited back into groups, for one. Maybe you're right and I'm putting too much faith in people. But I will be glad that I can go try something challenging or new or interesting without having to worry about penciling in UT on my schedule to pay the admission fee for doing so.

    I hope we will see some sort of new, fair death punishment, that doesn't have zero effect on some players and catastrophically demoralizing effects on others just because they've been loyal players of the game for longer.
    There's been a lot of good suggestions (and a lot of horrifying ones) so I guess we'll just have to see what happens.
     
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  6. Gia2

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    Given by gear bonuses you mean?
     
  7. Steevodeevo

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    Interesting points. Its tricky to think what may replace exp loss. Any 'pain' that is really significant so that some risk vs reward is maintained is going to hurt and some folks won't like it. At the risk of getting shot down, given everyone is saying what they don't want but few what they would see in its stead, how about the penalty being a bit more 'random' as in it doesn't happen very often, rarely in fact. As an RNG, the more you die the logically the more chance it has of happening, so here would be a disincentive to playing stupid.

    As a crafter and fan of the economy and where sensible, realism and immersion, I would suggest gear or weapon breakages... it is realistic, it could be painful if it happened (rarely and only on death) and could help gear and weapon crafters and the general economy of the game. It should of course exclude the same types of items that are excluded from PVP ransoms but I would suggest breaking a crafted item that is actually equipped. Yea not nice, but it is a death penalty and this approach doesn't set your character development back and wipe out half a day of grinding . It hits you in the pocket, makes you go visit a vendor, but just maybe you have more gold anyway as the market for materials gets a boost from a significant increase in gear sales..
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  8. Lazlo

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    I think most people already spend their points, but it wouldn't be a good thing if they didn't. Why would anyone want xp to be useless?
     
  9. Barugon

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    They already said that there will be something to replace it that serves the same purpose.
     
  10. Chrystoph Reis

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    I hope it is they stop you from gaining exp for a length of time. Same as death timer, and accumulative.
     
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  11. kaeshiva

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    This is actually my preferred option as well. Instantly get the 'attenuation' like debuff stopping all gains until a certain time has passed (the rolling hour or whatever).

    Why I like this:
    Its punishment, but is not going to interfere with group activities such as trying to take down a boss where XP is not the objective.
    You dust yourself off, get up, and try again, and yes, you'll miss out on the XP from the rest of that outing.
    Since its just a STOP of gains, rather than a subtraction of gains, you finish what you're doing and go do something else while thinking how to not get yourself killed the next time.
    If you really, really screw up? (multiple deaths) then yeah, you're probably not going to make any more progress tonight, but tomorrow's a new day!
    (I like this better than ...tomorrow you get to work off all of today's fun 1 painful UT run at a time.)
     
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  12. Barugon

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    I imagine they might do something like make the cost of raising skills scale with the total amount of experience you have pumped into skills.
     
  13. kaeshiva

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    I've never been a fair of gear breakage. I don't think it does much to stimulate the crafting economy since good gear is extremely tedious to make and completely RNG contingent. This is why you can't get even the price of materials back for selling crafted goods (at the high end, anyway).

    If/when specialization happens and that changes, and gear actually becomes customizable, I'd be less against this sort of penalty, because items could be replaced, and I think it would help crafters to make money in those conditions. With the current system, though, no, not really liking the idea of an item I grind for weeks to make getting trashed because I died. You just end up with nobody wearing good gear because it isn't worth it. Which means nobody can sell good gear because its disposable. Which is the problem we already have with crafting.
     
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  14. Chrystoph Reis

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    Problem wit this though, it won't prevent trolls from party wiping people then leaving the group.
     
  15. Barugon

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    It would also encourage people to just not play until the timer expires.
     
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  16. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    What exactly are you talking about @Chrystoph Reis ?
     
  17. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Baloney.
     
  18. majoria70

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    Perhaps with the removal of decay will come another death challenge in place of it. I guess we shall see. ;)
     
  19. Barugon

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    Hmm... let me think... do I continue fighting that boss mob (or any mob) and get no experience for my effort or do I wait for the timer to expire....
     
  20. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Hmm.... let me think...
    Oh.... perhaps you're not aware.... There is more to fighting a boss than just xp's.
    Thought you would have known that....
    My bad.
     
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