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[Dev Review] Sneak Attack Critical Damage Underwhelming

Discussion in 'Combat, Skills & Magic' started by Kyri, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. Kyri

    Kyri Avatar

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    1. Title: Sneak Attack Critical Damage Incorrect
    2. Reproducible? Yes
    3. Blocker?
    4. Details: My average non-critical hit with Sneak Attack is 200. My average critical hit with Sneak Attack is 200. For comparison, my average hit with Ground Pound is 300 and my average critical hit with Ground Pound is 1,200 as a Bludgeon and Tactics Specialist. I still score critical hits with Sneak Attack, but they don't appear to apply Critical Hit Bonus Damage.
    5. Steps to Reproduce: Use Sneak attack while NOT in Stealth, from behind or in front. I used the OCX damage parser created by Feldon, over thousands of samples on the Live Server
    6. User Specs: (RAM, CPU, GPU and Operating System only) 24 GB, Intel i-7 4790K, Nvidia GeForce GTX 980 Ti, Windows 10
     
  2. Kyri

    Kyri Avatar

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    [​IMG]

    Attached Screenshot results of parse using Feldon's OCX parser:

    https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP4FibHCRr5u32H6x8IxVU10i5oC2Kuk0lmZo85

    Scene: Spindelkog [Extreme]
    Mobs: Ghosts

    Sneak Attacks (154)
    Position: Attacking from Behind
    From Stealth? No

    Average Hit
    358

    Average Critical Hit
    268

    Relevant Details:
    5 stacks of Savage Sonata at skill level 120
    Tactics Specialization 120 in Berserk Stance
    Wolf Surprise food

    Is Sneak Attack working as INTENDED?
    *****Are regular hits supposed to deal more damage than critical hits?*****

    For comparison in the parser, you can see expected results from other attacks.

    Offhand Attacks (215)

    Average Hit
    61

    Average Critical Hit
    767

    Default/auto-attack (1,010)

    Average Hit
    9

    Average Critical Hit
    95
     
  3. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    @Kyri, your photo link leads to a sign-in page.
     
  4. Kyri

    Kyri Avatar

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    Thanks Alley Oop for letting me know. Not sure how to fix that. However, I can confirm the sneak attack critical hit issue occurs if you are a specialist and a non-specialist. I *believe* critical hits are only working correctly for sneak attack if you are stealthed.
     
  5. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    You can post a picture from your clipboard directly into discord (The official SotA discord has a channel for this) and then copy the link to post here! Best way to do it, Discord is a very good image host!
     
  6. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    @Kyri I'm trying to reproduce this.. so far, my observations are:

    Tested with Sneak Attack @ 100 using Aether Sword vs a Polar Mutilator.
    110 Str/85 Dex/77 Int

    - I do more damage from behind
    - I do slightly more damage from behind AND while stealthed (shadow form / silent movement)
    - I do less damage from in front or to the side

    (so far, working as intended/described in the skill description)

    I DO notice sometimes that my criticals aren't awesome, even from behind or while stealthed.. and they are often less than a non-critical hit (like you mentioned). The mechanics of this glyph require positioning and timing.. so I can see it being frustrating to not get some big damage when you successfully execute a sneak attack AND score a critical hit.

    I also observed several "glancing damage due to armor from Sneak Attack." .. while stealthed AND behind .. which doesn't "feel" right, since IMHO attacking from behind and while stealthed should bypass most armor.

    @Chris has said before (and as recently as this past livestream, when discussing a bug thread about Riposte) that he likes and encourages this kind of gameplay, and feels players should be rewarded for it.


    I'm going to mark this for dev-review, since I am not sure there is an actual bug - however, something doesn't 'feel' right about not getting much larger crits for being able to successfully pull off this style of gameplay.

    (These are all 5-stack charged attacks with a locked glyph)

    [11/21/2020 4:03:55 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 63 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:03:59 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 108 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:02 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 92 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:06 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 117 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:10 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 51 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:13 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 55 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:16 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 70 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:19 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 116 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:22 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 91 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:25 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 62 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:28 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 57 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:32 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 56 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.

    [11/21/2020 4:04:35 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 115 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:38 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 81 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:41 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 65 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:44 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 91 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:47 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 65 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:50 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 68 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:53 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 76 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:56 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 37 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:04:59 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 48 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:03 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 81 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:06 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 94 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:09 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 70 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:12 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 106 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:15 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 44 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:18 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 60 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:21 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 64 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:24 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 82 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:27 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 48 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:30 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 48 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:33 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 51 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:38 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 66 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:41 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 62 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:44 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 56 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:47 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 72 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:50 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 112 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:53 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 48 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:56 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 120 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:05:59 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 105 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:06:02 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 64 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:06:05 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 50 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:06:08 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 59 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:06:12 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 103 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:06:15 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 42 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:06:18 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 62 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:07:05 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 55 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:07:08 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 65 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:07:11 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 90 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:07:14 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 69 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:07:17 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 56 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:07:21 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 64 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.
    [11/21/2020 4:07:24 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 42 points of critical damage from Sneak Attack.

    [11/21/2020 4:07:30 PM] Echondas attacks Polar Mutilator and hits, dealing 110 points of damage from Sneak Attack.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  7. Kyri

    Kyri Avatar

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    Hi Enchondas,

    I appreciate you looking into this.

    From your post:

    12 Crits : Average Damage 65.33
    42 Hits : Average Damage 62.62

    Crit Damage was 4.3% higher.

    Observation: Small sample size, but those results are incredibly close. I've never seen a game where critical hits are supposed to only deal 4.3% more damage than regular hits.
    All other damage source in Shroud deal significantly more damage when scoring critical hits.
    It seems your results support the case that there is either an issue with critical hits from Sneak Attack not working correctly, or alternatively working with a deliberate design to not significantly deal more damage (for some reason).
     
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  8. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    @Kyri Glad to help and thanks for doing the math - I am not a huge math fan.. but luckily @Chris is, and I'm sure when he sees this since it's flagged for review, it will be helpful.
     
  9. Toular

    Toular Avatar

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    I wonder if part of the problem is that, since there is nothing in the logs to indicate that the attack qualifies as a rear attack and/or you are stealthed the logic behind the reported damage is suspect.

    There are several variables involved with Sneak attack:
    1) The Sneak Attack skill level
    2) Are you stealthed?
    3) Is the attack from behind the target? (Does a side rear count as behind, or do you have to be directly behind?)
    4) The skill level of "Backstab"

    In my case, I have the following:
    • Archery 135;
    • Sneak Attack: 72
    • Backstab: 103
    My average damages from Sneak Attack from last Saturday are:
    non-critical: 86.0494
    critical: 135.556
    total attacks: 101

    A larger sample, but with the complication of a few skill gains in Sneak Attack - from all of November. Coincidentally. I started working on Sneak Attack at the beginning of the month, so these stats are from skill level 6 - 72):
    non-critical: 66.5798
    critical: 103.116
    total attacks: 805

    A good number of those criticals are one-shot kills since I'm using overland encounters as training areas.
     
  10. Kyri

    Kyri Avatar

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    @Toular

    In Stealth and from behind, Sneak Attack critical hits deal more damage as expected (have seen hits over 8,000)
    Not in Stealth and from behind, Sneak Attack critical actually deal less a little less damage than non-critical Sneak Attack hits.

    Polearm 140
    Sneak Attack 140
    Backstab 120