Disappointed in the way things are going

Discussion in 'Guild & Town Hall' started by Tealus, Sep 6, 2013.

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  1. Mystic

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    I'm the same way. I will be getting my house from things I do in game.
     
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  2. Devoid

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    Ditto for me!
    I won't pay real money for ANYTHING except for the actual game! Everything else I'll work towards ingame as part of the gaming experience, anything else is beyond my comprehension; after all, it's all virtual.

    When it comes to housing, I would much rather acquire a run down cottage or haunted tower, something that oozes and reeks of malicious evil. Dare not approach for fear it will cost you your soul!
     
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  3. Ara

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    So if i play a crafter and want a vendor where should i place it if i dont have a house?

    Rent a small part of the rich guys vendor? No thank you, i still have some pride left.

    Having a house is what i see as one of the most important parts of this game.

    And i am definetly not confident i will be able to get one by in-game money. I belive that the main part of the players never will become a house owner. I hope im wrong.
     
  4. Owain

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    I think the plan will be to have a public market place. If that's the case, then the rest of your comments become moot.
     
  5. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I know it hasn't been talked about much but there will be public markets where you can put your vendor. Otherwise you're alienating a lot of crafters and making that much more difficult to earn money to secure what precious lots are available. Houses are not the only place vendors can be placed.

    Keep in mind also that it has been expressed by the devs that if the demand is high enough for more housing that they may be willing to open up new towns.

    Edit: Owain beat me to it while I was typing. :p
     
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  6. Ara

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    Yes i agree a public market place would work just fine.
     
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  7. Koldar

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    I believe they also talked about public crafting stations.
     
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  8. Ara

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    Yes i was not worried about that part. Didnt know about the public vendor though.
     
  9. Mystic

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    I've never liked the idea of a public market other than people spamming randomly at banks and other populated areas that they have things to sell. What happens is you end up with a bunch of people all selling the same things and end up undercutting each other in order to move product. In a real life setting, this is fine because there is an infinate amount or variety. In a game though, you are limited to the few hundred items that are craftable and even then, you only sell the ones that are in demand.

    Then to add to that, if someone figures out how to automate resource gathering and/or crafting, then forget the market because it will tank because no effort or time is put into what they are selling so they couldn't care less if they don't make a lot of money off their wares or not.

    At least with personal house based vendors, people have to actively seek them out and spend time looking for good ones and the owners have to actively promote themselves.
     
  10. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Except players won't be able to spam everyone in the area.. it'll be the NPCs that are selling.. and not everyone walking by will see or hear the players. I also don't see a lot of potential for automated resource harvesting.
     
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  11. Koldar

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    Yes, exactly. Hopefully this is their plan for implementation.
     
  12. Mystic

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    That depends on how both the seller and others have their settings. If you have your settings to see as many people as possible, you will see most of the people in an area provided they either match with the matchmaking system or are set to see lots of people as well (and I'm guessing the majority of people will have theirs set to this seeing as most people here seem to want as close to an MMO experience as this game will provide). They had talked in the beginning about being able to see around 100 people on max. That's a lot of people for any mmo in any given area. 50 people in an area in UO when the game was highly popular would lag the area out something fierce.

    None the less, half the fun in UO was being able to find good shops with good owners. That is taken away with something like a central market unless they plan on making something like 10,000-50,000 different items that will have some sort of demand value to them so that not every crafter is selling the exact same things. Even then, a lot of items that would be more decoration will have a lower demand because of the limited housing situation. No one wants to buy a ton of deco items if they don't have a place to put them. It won't take very long for people to figure out which weapons and armour work the best and at that point, most crafters will end up making just those items which will drop the price of them in order to be able to sell them because it'll start with one or another person undercutting the market followed by others dropping price so they can continue to sell. Before you know it, you're selling the items at cost and making no gold.

    We still don't know a whole lot about harvesting at this point so it's hard to say about how hard it would be for people to make resource automation scripts. I'd like to think that Portalarium would be on top of it, but then many scripting programs are very difficult to detect so the only option would be something along the lines of punkbuster or another form of detection which no one really wants.
     
  13. Bowen Bloodgood

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    But you'll recall MMO player populations are divided amongst many shards.. 50 can easily become 500 in SotA and if you're only seeing 50-100 of those.. how many are going to be sellers vs shoppers? :)

    That said you kind of have to have a public market for non-home owners or they'll be getting a bad wrap. So the challenge is providing enough divsersity in consumable and "soft-item" goods to not over saturate the local markets.
     
  14. Mystic

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    I think it's going to end up being divided. There are more people who are going pure crafter than I originally expected there to be, myself but I think the point I was making there is that there will be a lot of people in a single area. Even if you only see 100, there will be plenty of people in that 100 selling things so that each group of matched people I'm sure will have some people selling.

    As for the house situation, I really liked the way UO handled it. People who own houses should have the ability to rent out vendor spaces in their houses to other people. This enables a house, especially larger ones, to become a place well known for having pretty much everything you need since very few people will be able to supply all the different crafting trees themselves. This means, if I have a house and I make weapons and armour, but I really want to sell scrolls, I can find a crafter somewhere like these forums or the chatroom who crafts those items but might not have a house of their own and see if they would like to rent a vendor in my house to sell their stuff. Brings more business to my house and they are actively making more money.

    If you have city based flea markets, the point of even having a vendor house becomes useless and ruins the fun for many of us who are going full crafter in many ways.
     
  15. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I don't think it'll be that bad. There's a certain charm both to having a large market place and to finding a favorite shop somewhere. Only speaking for myself here but I won't care if it's a shop or market. I'll find all the places that I like to buy from in an area no matter where it is.

    Besides that.. I can't help but wonder how difficult it may be for a single merchant to keep up with demand in a well balanced markets? Crafters won't be able to sell at cost because they still have to pay their vendors. Eventually the market prices should stablize and that'll be what it is. Personally I think they might encourage people to diversify more if they're looking for huge profits. It would also hopefully encourage people to interact more. I'm more likely to by from someone I know and like than someone I've never met and I'd be willing to pay them more also for good service.
     
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  16. Sargon

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    Do you realize how much money it costs to develop a game? $2.5 Million is certainly not beyond the norm. In fact, I believe it would be well below the average for modern RPG's. You will get what you pledged for and the add-ons will simply be nice-to-have items that give Portalarium some additional funds that will be needed along the way. Regardless of whether you want to buy them, the end result of additional funding will be a better game for everyone.
     
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  17. Devoid

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    For comparison, I just read that GTA V has a budget of approx. $262,000,000
    :/
    Maybe Portalarium ought to sell some virtual doghouses too?
     
  18. Sargon

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    That is over 10 Star Citizens to you and me, kids.
     
  19. Tealus

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    That is incorrect. Crowdfunding is investing. You are investing in a project with the expectation of receiving a product instead of the money plus interest or share of the company.
    The rest of your comment was based on your incorrect assumption. Every crowdfunding has an expectation for the money that was given, which makes it a INVESTMENT.

    You might want to read that TOS again. Kickstarter TOS also requires the project creator to return the money if they unable to fullfill project. In fact, you can be arrested for fraud, if you use the kickstarter money outside of what you collected it for (I got a full refund from one kickstarter project because the creator wanted to avoid jail, he used the money to pay his student loan and then didn't have enough left over to do the project.). You are not donating unless you are one of those 88 that clearly selected the "donation" tier. Which clearly makes the rest of the backers, an investors with an expectation of receiving what was projected.

    They are ADDING more items with the funds from kickstarter without including it with the kickstarter project. Everything created for the project, outside of the specification that was clearly listed before the kickstarter ended, should be given as part of the complete game to every kickstarter backers.

    Nowhere on the kickstarter project was there the idea that the funds was going to be use for "fundraising". Many questions was ask and we were told that this was not going to be an MMO. But this is what is happening and I have a right to be pieved about it. Nobody is offering to return the money for the bait and switch.

    It does not matter what it cost for other developers. The Portalarium projected the amount they needed to create this game. The kickstarter backers gave them double what they ask for. So the question remains is, why are they begging for more money this soon.
     
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  20. Sargon

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    That is simply not true. The Kickstarter goal was the portion of money they requested from their customers to use toward development of the game. That doesn't mean that it was their entire development budget. They may have other corporate investors or be investing their own money or some combination of the two. Just because you pledged to the Kickstarter campaign does not entitle you to everything they create during the entire development cycle. For all we know, SotA may have a $10 Million budget, of which only a small percentage came from he crowd-funding campaign.
     
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