Disruption of Events in PvP POT's...

It sounds good in theory, but if you have these same group of jerks keep rezzing coming back again and again, you would have to stop your event to handle them. It will start to get tiresome after awhile unless the event was intended for anyone to jump in and get ready to rumble.

If nothing is to be done with it, in the future we will have a group of let's say 10-20 guys going naked or use non-damage equipment (to avoid paying the price of oracle) running around disrupting the events and keep coming back after getting killed. Eventually, people may get tired of it and stop doing the events on PVP town altogether. That would end up making even less people participating in PVP, don't you think?

The goal of having POT is for players to have more freedom in creating more contents. If the governor prefers to kill his vermin scums who keep disturbing the town instead of banning them, sure go for it. But for those who got sicked and tired of these same griefers keep coming back, they should have the right to get rid of these people as well regardless of whether it's PVP town or not.

 

there are 2 kind of Player owned towns. PvP and PvE. If you cannot handle flagging for pvp and your events are getting ruined by pvp then you should make your town pve. Its really simple. In pve you can ban players from your town.

 

When you buy a town it's not PvP. A PvP town is a town that forces a player to have their PvP status changed or not enter your town. To have the ability to force everyone into PvP so everyone can be killed we must be willing to understand they paid for a game and that game advertised selection on PvP status and we just overrode that. That is their game that we are modifying when they enter our town. Without that understanding the rest of this conversation can't take place. Buying a town doesn't make you a ruler of people, a ruler of players, or a game master. A town Owner had the power to change a few select pixels in an environment that's controlled by the game designers. Our benefit as owners is decorations in the town and not game mechanics. Not having that clear distinction can easily create confusion. This is our town and we can make it into our unique fingerprint on this game. If not able to accept the standpoint were not becoming gms/mods/devs, we shouldn't click that check box that sets our town to PvP. At that moment you'll get confused when you don't become godlike in your own town. We don't have invulnerability like gm clients and we should never get it.

I've fully expressed my opinion and will leave this thread unless tagged. I feel like anymore comments from me will be redundant. Have a great time hashing this out guys. Remember there are people on the other side of the screen and they paid for access too. Also, if you don't own a PvP town or aren't actively spending hours a day living exclusively in PvP environments I'd request you let this conversation express the opinions of those who do / are. Everyone do what they want but remember that speculation is a great way to create issues that don't exist.

Also: I've held off 8 PKers in a 1v1 event area and completed my event successful. We had to figure a lot out after Jacob Canaan came back from his third ban (that I'm aware of) and started greifing our events again. The systems how they are in this game are sufficient if the bugs are fixed. Shooting through walls is nuts... shooting across zones is nuts... banning from PvP towns is nuts. 1shot killing people happens already... (See what I did there? )

Happy posting everyone. Hopefully I added a benefit in sharing my opinions here. I'm glad the devs read them and are gracious enough to ignore the stupid ones without labeling them

 

As I've already stated several times, the 1 shot kill is an interim solution. It would work very simply as a deterrent for players going into areas with guards. It's not a ban, it's a very effective deterrent and it would be temporary until additional development was performed to make it more sophisticated.

Because having an actual KOS list would probably be a bit more complex and require more coding (I'm guessing) then an alternative interim solution would be to have guards attack anyone that attacks first in that area, or they could attack players that go into combat mode. The problem with this however is that it would make structured pvp events near impossible. But it would allow talking and the buying and selling of goods so it does have some advantages. I'd prefer the KOS List, but I'd gladly take the alternative (mentioned above) if that's the best we could do today.

Could someone create a POT with tons of NPC Guards that insta kill people as they zone into the POT? Sure they could. But then someone could teleport to a friend, get into the town and run a muck. So it's not a ban. POT owners would have to be strategic in guard placement. If the POT were locked down because of these guards, so what? You now have players that can come into the area, and you have players that can TRY to come into the area if they so choose.

It's not the long term solution, it's the easiest way to fix the problem right now today without allowing PVP POT owners to ban.

 

Funny. Rats Nest will never be non-pvp, regardless of the mechanics. Unfortunately, it may only have one person living there BECAUSE of those same mechanics.

 

I wish you'd explain in detail why you think NPC guards are such a bad idea. So far you've only said that it would waste development time and that you think it's "fluff". I think that's very important for the developers to hear because I feel I've given extremely well thought out reasons for NPC guards that would benefit the community as a whole and help foster PVP as opposed to what we've had over the last 3 years which clearly can't be anyone's version of "good pvp".

Since it's not your job to decide what the devs prioritize I feel the first reason is bogus. Since you're just one person calling NPC Guards "fluff" (and that wasn't supported at all) I feel your second reason is bogus. Do you have any more reasons?

 

PvP is the easiest content to create. It's also the hardest to perfect.

The current state is Open PvP, by far the easiest, and you are suggesting to change it from open to a managed PvP system. How detailed the managed PvP gets the more people will find ways to either work around the system or use it against others.

The rentable theater system is in the works. That WILL deliver the desired effect for controlling events.

 

I'm not proposing a "managed pvp system" I'm proposing we add tools that allow for meaningful pvp.

It's interesting that "pvp is the easiest content to create" since I waited over 7 years for Darkfall to come out. That's all Darkfall has is pvp, a simple crafting system, no lore, no integrated systems, just go out and kill everyone. Even they had a tower that killed people from other factions on site and if you attacked someone first they flagged and the tower would kill them in short order.

My playing experience tells me you're wrong.

 

You didn't play Darkfall long if you didn't see people work around those towers

Edit: anything that is not open PvP is managed PvP.

 

Why cant PoT owners manage PvP and leave open PvP for the Shardfalls and the Devs?
Why do governors not have the same controls in all there PoTs. it is there town is it not?
PoTs are for the governors to create something special are they not?

 

They didn't get around those towers, they manipulated them to their own advantage when other players didn't know what was going on. If your point is that the more systems you put into place the more players are able to manipulate them, yes that's true. But that's not a reason to not add new systems. If that were true we'd all be sitting in a global chat right now and the game would've been finished 3 years ago.

What's that? We want crafting in the game? Well we can't do that because players will find ways around it and manipulate the system. No crafting, no sir.

Well in that case guilty as charged. But defining something doesn't win your argument for you.

Here I'll make up a definition too. Wrong Way Logic: An argument that uses incomplete or strawman comparisons for an agenda that is unclear.

There, now we both have pointless definitions that are not supported by fact, but may still seem very important to us.

 

We could do that, but it would result in extremely boring PVP for someone like myself. The key to finding balance is to make PVP zones the same in terms of rule sets, but not making the rule set 100% chaos anything goes with no way to throttle that down in areas of the town.

 

@Baron Drocis Fondorlatos I would like for you to have your town and events set up in a way that is best for you/your town/your event/your residents.
I would like for every one to have the same, and I would hope others would want the same for me and my PoT.
It does seem though that many people have an opinion on how I run and manage my own PoT. this is sad to me.

 

I missed this, "event mode" would probably be an option, but that would be a long time out.

 

@DarkStarr @Berek @Chris

A lot of comments from the peanut gallery, people that don't PvP, don't have any stake in the resolution of this problem, people just responding to everything to build their post/like counts. And thanks for the comments, you throw enough b.s. on the wall eventually something will stick.

So, doing some math here... it looks like 6 owners of presently PvP flagged towns are present in this thread of what maybe 15 in the game? @Brickbat @ashmaul @Violation Clauth @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos @E n v y @Peeps Did I miss anyone?

Anyway, why not just do a Portalarium conversation thread with the forum accounts of players that actually own the in game PvP towns and we can work out a solution.

V/R Brickbat

 

You must be very worked up over all this. You've gone all over the place to defend a temp solution. Which is my point. It's temp, it will add rules to a place there are no rules.

1. Should they tinker with those rules till they get them right? It is temp.
2. Do you know all the other mechanics and how they will impact your temp fix? For example, the moral system? Those guards might have a role in that but you temp could negate it. Which leads right back to #1.

If you'd prefer we beat around the bush with the usual debate parlor tricks we can do that but you know exactly what I am saying.

 

Lot Bans don't work like their supposed to. Chain Lightning, AoE spells, etc. still hit players inside walls set up on the lot that the troublemaker is banned from. Players can jump over the walls, etc. Those are all mechanics of the game that Portalarium knows aren't working as intend and they haven't fixed.

As a PvP Town Owner, I should be able to ban any player I don't want on my "property" (eg. my town). Now will I do this? Only for troublemakers who show up and impact events. Give PvP Town Owners back our ban list and we'll take care of the rest. End of story.

V/R Brickbat

 

I hear you man, but you'll run into the same mess and confusion that the Duke and LOTMs were thrown into regarding static walls in NPC towns... if you want an exclusive conversation, the best thing to do may be to wait until after Final Wipe (after POT sales are wrapped up).

I have a POT - waiting for it to be placed in-game and while it's not flagged for PVP I can tell you that it's not flagged because there are just too many unknowns. At some point in the lifetime of SotA, maybe my POT will be flagged for PVP; but with things the way they are right now, I don't want to take the risk. And I'm not entirely sold on the fact that PVP events in a PVE town are going to be the answer... not with PK campers and in-game death penalties as they are.

 

I think it affects folks who expect pvp out of a pvp area equally as much. It would suck to find targets in a pvp area out in the open only to find you get punished via some unique mechanic you have no say in.

 

I agree with you. However, there are people in this thread that consistently say "well it's open pvp so you either have that or nothing" which is really the same thing, holding people (in this case POT Owners) hostage to use a system they don't like in an area of the game that they paid for.

There has to be a balance. I'm for all voices being heard, but there has to be a collaborative spirit to the discussion and the PVP POT owners should be weighted a little more heavily than average guy with an opinion. When the developers decided to remove bans from pvp POTs I remember there being a lot of people screaming for no bans that didn't own PVP POTs. That can't happen here.

I would also caution PVP POT owners to use good judgement and think about more than their individual POTs. We have a problem here and it's not going away because of "player solutions" nor is it acceptable to use draconian measures like "banning everyone" that doesn't play by your rules.