Don't Reward this Behavior... bring the community together.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chrystoph Reis, Aug 12, 2018.

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  1. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    You don't need to apologize or leave the game over this. It should be ok to create a group that suits your needs atm. You were not wrong to do this. If our group finder allowed more discriptiveness perhaps you could have mentioned the goals you had. So stay and play and you are just fine. Don't worry so much about it.
     
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  2. Dread1313

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    Totally agree :)
     
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  3. Paulie Walnuts

    Paulie Walnuts Bug Brigade – Bug Hunter

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    That post you're responding to was sarcasm.

    I'd be a liar if I said when I see restrictions on groups it's not a bit of a turn off. However, I support peoples freedom to play how they want to play. There's plenty of justification for open groups for all levels and level restricted groups. I don't feel like persuading the people to change their style of playing is the answer. Adding more content to the game that allows people to group and play how they want to play at all levels is.
     
  4. Aurelius Silverson

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    Problem is, whether it's 'good' or 'bad' behaviour sort of depends on the reasoning for people setting level limits for their groups, and it's not always simple to tell what their reasons might be... plus the core issue that would be a cause for concern (i.e. some people behaving in ways others find unpleasant) is frankly just a part of life.

    Adding a low level or low skill player to a group can be a limiter on the performance of the group as a whole - some people don't mind that at all,some mind it a lot. It can also be unpleasant for the low level player as they will be the most often dead, or most often feel like the 'spare wheel' in the group - again, how much people mind those things varies greatly. Now of course, using levels as an indicator of competence is not exactly an accurate guide to the ability of the people you bring in, so although it is a vaguely useful guideline it's far from reliable.

    If people are setting limits to make sure their group enjoys what they are doing, I can see no real objection to it - similarly if people are happy taking in all applicants, or anywhere in between the extremes, I'm not bothered.

    If people are using it as an indicator of who they think it's worth playing alongside, though, or as a 'status badge' to decide who they are willing to mix with - it's a fairly toxic attitude to take, but as long as you have humans, some will do just that, unpleasant though many people may find it. There is no in-game system you can impose to prevent it, the only thing that has any effect at all is peer pressure and social acceptance, and since it's the internet and an mmo those are easily ignored by people who simply don't feel any need to care about them. I can't (and have no wish to) police what other people do, as long as they don't break the rules I can't see how Portalarium can legitimately compel the way folks act, and all I can do if I think someone is unpleasant or not the sort of person I'd get along with is stick them on ignore. With regard to non-cheating behaviour in a game, I can't, and do not want to, make anyone do what I "think" they should do. Sure, there is an argument about 'the good of the game' (which I always have issues with as a concept...) but if what's wanted is more open groups being there for players of all types to join, the only workable answer is for us to make them.

    (And just for the record, for any high level area, if you ever see any of my characters in there it probably means my account has been hacked, because I'm not fast enough, skilled enough, or motivated enough to ever be there at all! That's not what I do for fun....)
     
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  5. Brass Knuckles

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    For the record and there other posts ive made that confirms this..

    1. If UT is intended to be a high level end game experience its far to easy. If this was designed as a mid level area then the xp is too rewarding.

    2. Im not a fan of dbl xp weekends, if there gonna do the dbl xp thing it shoulda have been all week. This is not fair to people who are not able to play on the weekends.

    Heres the point sorry for my opinion crap above. The cool thing about being in a guild is they can and do run these to powerlevel the low players. Id suggest finding a guild with this mentality. We have leveled so many of our players doing this its been awesome.
     
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  6. Dread1313

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    Totally agree with you here. Its all about having the freedom to choose how you want to play. Tailor groups how you see fit. Ever since 2005 there has been a very specific group of people who feel like they can totally dictate and control how others enjoy their game... And thats what all of my posts above are about. The mentality I speak of has literally destroyed most games I have played, Ive watched it happen. Its made me a very very sad panda.
     
  7. kaeshiva

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    This post has inspired me, any group I lead from now on will have some sort of whimsical restrictions.
    Watch your LFG tool, folks!
    UT - cat people only - no dog lovers!
     
  8. Dread1313

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    This kind of thinking will do us in. Thats what the whole "well its not fair for group B because group A can have this, that, and the other." There are always gonna be winners and losers, haves and have-nots, anywhere you go. Theres always gonna be someone who's underpaid, someone who didn't get their day off, someone who didn't get what they want. Its called life, and the responsibility we bear as adults is just to deal with it and move on. If you say "well double XP weekends are unfair because people have to work on the weekend", we need to have it all week now, you're setting a precedent for a slippery slope because then someone else will whine that having dbl XP only for one week a month isn't fair... so on and so forth. Being so dependent on a "double XP weekend" is setting a bad precedent because you get used to it being there and it becomes "the new basic" and once its taken away it pisses you off. Not everyone is going to be able to take advantage of double XP weekends, but then again - not everyone can win the lottery either. Just adapt.

    Hell, I don't even care about double XP weekends. I just play to have fun. I am not trying to race to the top. Whatever happened to playing just for fun and not trying to compete in leveling? Isn't that what video games are supposed to be all about? Having fun? Or have we lost sight of that?
     
  9. Dread1313

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    Racist! :p
     
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  10. Brass Knuckles

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    I get what ur saying, if I was one of those people for what ever reason I could never play the weekends Id feel anger at the permanent advantage all the rest had over me. Thankfully i can grind all weekend long...

    Personaly I wish they abolished the dbl xp stuff and just buff the zones if xp truley is a problem.
     
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  11. Gix

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    The LFG tool desperately needs a filter (as I can't imagine how unbearable it'd be if everyone uses it) but the idea of listing groups with a custom description is one of the game's best assets. Trying to enforce a point of view into a fundamentally free system is a bad idea and, as you can tell by the many responses, goes against a lot of what the game is trying to be: a game for everyone.

    Being old school doesn't mean that you have to hate change. I'm not a fan of the direction games and its industry is heading but I don't attribute it to a single feature or design philosophy. I hate some older games just as much as I hate some new ones... I don't like Ultima (my favourite is U4 despite it playing like garbage) for many reasons. With that said, I love new games as much as I love older ones... because what matters is how each system/mechanic is setup to engage the players.

    Elder Scrolls Online has level scaling for both PvP and PvE content and it’s far from dead. Not the most thought provoking, challenging or dynamic game mind you but it’s not failing; quite the opposite, in fact... especially when you consider that the game's darker times was before scaling was even implemented.
    If your game is about making friends and building a community, why wouldn’t you facilitate playing with people who don’t have the same schedule or investment? Especially if your game (supposedly) prioritizes story and free-form play over grinding? Because you’re old school? That doesn't sit well for me considering you'd think old school gamers would prefer community-centric systems.

    I'm not saying that the game should have auto-scaling but, wouldn't that fix a LOT of game's messy difficulty curve and balance issues? PvP would definitely thrive considering that most competitors love fighting on equal grounds!

    It's not about old school vs new; it's about what's better for the game and that's primarily why I'm not a fan of the purist mindset; especially when it involves calling a group of people out (when they most likely can't read your post) merely based on one's own perception (as opposed of bringing out facts that clearly shows these people being wrong). It'd be more easier to empathize with you had you simply said that you liked grinding instead of going on a full-on hateful rant.

    That's a terrible reason to buy into a game... more so considering some old school gamers hate it. There's a large mass of KS backers (the ones who were responsible to kicking this project off the ground) that hate it... and it's got nothing to do with the instant-gratification mindset. Lets not forget that it's no reason to not try to improve on the game either. You do you, though.

    I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong for hating the new trends or anything, but to tell you that your hatred and frustration seems misplaced.
     
  12. golruul

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    To pile on: If you don't like the groups you see, make one yourself according to whatever criteria that'll make you happy. Pissed at seeing groups discriminating against low/mid level players? Post a group saying "all welcome, especially low/mid players".

    Problem solved.

    ...except it's really not solved for most people, because most people outright refuse to make a group. They'd rather complain about "elitists" and whine for the developers to do something about it.
     
  13. Dread1313

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    Why? No matter what bro, there's always going to be someone who has an advantage over you. This isn't about someone being better than you because they had an advantage over you, its about being stronger and adapting!
    Don't ever think that just because someone was given an advantage over you, that makes them better. I've played with scores of players who were given an advantage over me for whatever reason, and they sucked. Didn't make them better. You shouldn't be so envious of people. I want to help people see that being envious of someone because they have an advantage doesn't necessarily make them better.
     
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  14. Dread1313

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    I dont have any "hatred and frustration". If you perceive what I am saying as "hatred" then you have the problem, not me. And you are taking what I am saying waaaaaaayy out of context!

    Just because I am an old man who plays games and set in my ways, doesn't mean I hate change. In fact, I have whined about changing certain things on here and on reddit, so no - I don't hate change. Now, what I am going to say is subjective, so take from it what you will.. But I hate idiotic change. There, I said it. Just because ESO or WOW or whatever meta popular game at the top of twitches list is popular doesn't mean they are great. Are big macs popular? Sure they are! But I can tell you many people I talk to and ask them about McDonalds food and they start retching and gagging. Just because McDonalds has billions and billions served, and many people like it, doesn't make it great. Just because many people play MMO's with level scaling because the most common denominator that are playing those games are millenials (not old school gaming old men like me) doesn't make them great.

    Asking for the devs to implement scaling world is just a lazy thing to do. How about just leveling past the difficulty curve, instead of asking someone else to fix it for you? Theres nothing wrong with the difficulty in this game. And asking the devs to water it down and homogenize it when its perfectly fine in its current form to fit your needs and playstyle, to hell with everyone else is a very selfish thing to do. Likewise, same goes for games where stuff is too easy. Take path of exile for example. People find overpowered builds. Then other people (jealous ones) complain that the builds are too powerful and need to be nerfed. They don't give a **** that there's thousands of other players who came back to the game, paid GGG money and are playing and enjoying the game. No sir! Some men just want to watch the world burn, and they get mad that THEY weren't the ones who found the build first. They don't want to level that build up themselves now, because now - they are not part of the status quo. No, instead they whine on the forums that something needs to be nerfed.

    The devs listen because of the cattle-mentality that other whiners fall into and then they start nerfing. Then more people (the ones you know, who were actually enjoying the game instead of bitching about it non-stop) get pissed and quit playing again. Until the next patch comes around and some dumb OP mechanic is revealed and starts the whole process over and over again. This is about old school versus new. Its been that way since 2005 or so. I have seen it myself! I can almost narrow it down to the day when I started noticing in WoW that people would abandon a group after ONE WIPE! This industry HAS changed. And its definitely not for the better. But I am not going to argue with you, I have argued with people like you for almost 10-15 years now and I tire of it.
     
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  15. FrostII

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    As is often the case, I agree with you completely - @kaeshiva ;)
     
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  16. Floors

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    Fortnite.
     
  17. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    Eventually, the status quo gets boring. It did for me and for a few others here. Keep on niche-ing~!
     
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  18. Dread1313

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    Fortnite is at the top now, has been for a while. Used to be LoL, then they made detrimental changes to it and it slid and is now in the long shadow of Fortnite.
    I am not a Fortnite fan. I am not a "moba" fan. Never has been my cup of tea. Doesnt mean I suck. Doesnt mean I am a bad person or a [insert here] person. It just means that I am a person that has specific likes and dislikes that are specific to my wants and needs. This is what gives me my individuality. I realize that not everyone is like me and everyone else other than me has, and is entitled to their own opinion, and I deeply respect that. But just the same, I am also entitled to my opinion that implementing level scaling is a dumb endeavor (because I dont like it at all!).

    I do realize that at the end of the day, Portalarium has to keep the lights on and put food on the table. I realize that they will never be able to sustain that if the only people playing are old timers like myself and if theres only 10-20 of us, thats not enough revenue. I understand that they are a business and they have to make business decisions to keep the lights on and the doors open and even if those decisions dont align with what I want, I am ok with that. If they implement level scaling because they think it might help attract more players to this game, then more power to them. I will stop playing and hope this game does well and prospers. Just as I wouldnt stand in the way of someones happiness or leveling, I also wouldnt stand in the way of their prosperity. I hope SoTA does well and does attract more players. Ths game NEEDS that very badly! Even if its at the cost of a few old timers, like me leaving. It would still be worth it.
     
  19. Dread1313

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    Let me ask you this... If you want level scaling, why even play here? There's already a very polished MMO out there (two of them) that have level-scaling. Why can't ONE FRIGGIN GAME WITHOUT LEVEL SCALING exist? Is that too much to ask for? Its like you walk outside of a Wal-Mart and you say "You know what, I don't like all these different colored cars, EVERY CAR MUST BE YELLOW BECAUSE I SAY SO!" So then you walk back into Wal-Mart and buy 10,000 gallons of yellow paint and then go outside and paint every car yellow, just because??? Maybe I am just really stupid, or really dumb, or hell maybe I am just an alien in a "human-suit", but what is the deal with all this "everything must be the exact same as everything else!" mentality? It's driving me crazy lol!

    Edit: Ok, ill put this into terms so that everyone here can understand what I am saying.

    Let's say you like skittles... Youve eaten skittles all your life (forget about diabetes and weight and all that crap, focus with me here!). Any way, Skittles mfg (mars or whoever the hell it is) tweets "Hey we decided its better to just make all the other skittles EXCEPT LIME GREEN ones all lime green. So now all skittles bags will only have one color, and one flavor - LIME GREEN. Lets pretend you HATE lime green skittles. Out of your entire life you ate skittles you always picked out the green ones and threw them away... Would you still buy skittles?

    The point is, lots of people like skittles. Not everyone likes all skittles. Some like some skittles more than others. But to make them ALL THE SAME COLOR/FLAVOR is industrial suicide. If all MMO's keep going down this road, and all MMO's end up being the same thing - with the only difference being mounts and wardrobe crap, there will be no MMO future for anyone. Except the lemmings.

    Apparently lemmings like green skittles.

    In case anyone wants to know, the movie in this clip is a direct representation of where we are headed as a society if the lemmings win.



    Tread softly on my dreams.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
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  20. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    Who said I like scaling?
     
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