Ever wonder?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stellos Hayford, Apr 3, 2020.

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  1. Stellos Hayford

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    Why players are leaving during the first scene? As the data suggests?

    Because characters look like they're from Everquest 1. Because there's not enough character customisation options, such as long hair for males, so instead they choose a bald guy, or a guy with short hair like the other hundred players. Which is NOT what they planned to play when they signed up for an account. Maybe a dashing rogue with ringlets, or a long, robust ponytail.

    Because several existing players are demanding new toilets, apparently, instead of a character overhaul.

    Because when they first see their character, there's a big bald streak down their pageboy hair, like on the 2020 goals post.

    Ask Final Fantasy 14 players (19 million players) how much they love their characters, and how much time and money they spend customising them. Love starts with yourself. And the first bond prospective players make are with their residual avatar. We need to foster that, I firmly believe, -then- let them see the wonderful world portalarium has created for them.

    Then when they move onto the outskirt zones, they need more than Ultima 3 chatboxes. We need pretty gumps for dialogue, such as cloud chatbubbles, where it looks polished and user friendly, rather than something created before windows 3.1. Being an old school CRPG player, (like many here), I can respect that, but lots of potential new players don't.

    And you're worried about theater systems? And 12% percent of players get through the first scene without quitting? Something is very wrong here. And no, it isn't the starting zones. Hasn't been for a while. I believe it's the priorities for 2020. And please, -please- listen, as an ally, good looking characters are so, -so- much more important than a theater feature.

    The revised zones, including the starting zones, and their assets look beautiful. I don't deny it. The farms, and the overturned wagons, and the tents look breathtaking. It's just a pity the characters don't.

    You probably want people to go in with a glad heart, from a developers point of view. A totally reasonable hope. But from a players point of view, me going in with a pageboy haircut with a bald patch due to lack of handsome options didn't quite cut it.

    While you tinker with this and that in the starting zones, please take a look into the magic mirror and behold yourself. And tell me you don't say, "Balls."

    This -needs- to be a priority, one of the foremost, in my opinion. And yet it isn't listed as an important goal. Certainly not for 2020.

    And no, that's not taking into account players who prefer to accrue experience points via solo play, once they've done the majority of quests, who may have children that need almost constant attention, or for other personal reasons, rather than commit to a time gated monster mash. Or daily quests, where they can commit their own time at the keyboard. Because grinding 10,000 wolves without any variety, (except for other wildlife) is fun.

    But most potential players don't stick around to enjoy those wonders, sadly.

    I don't want shroud of the avatar to stagnate and eventually die out due to lack of influx. Myself and others have invested much time, -and- money, though not nearly so much as the staff, to help move it along. I entreat you, please do the things that -need- to be done to impress new players, rather than continue to cater to the current base, who are already fairly loyal. Not that the wants of those who have shown commitment should be neglected, absolutely not, but I ask that you -don't- settle for a measly 12 percent retention, because as your team has posted frequently, we -need- new players, and we need to win their continued interest. Yes, expansion of existing systems is very important, but not as important as keeping prospective players interested enough to try a few scenes and get them to know the community, and make social ties, and indeed, ties with their character.

    ~ Note: In reviewing this post that I had made hours earlier, it came to my attention that perhaps it was worded too critically, and I hope the team understands that it's something I feel is -extremely- important to prospective players -and- myself. It is only a very strong suggestion, of course, born of personal conviction, and was said with only the good of the project in mind. So in reading the above, please take it in a gentler light than it was posted and understand that I feel most passionately about the points that I mentioned within. I hope it doesn't come across as a disrespectful post. I just request that you consider the points above as my personal views as to what we needs to be done in 2020. God bless, and stay safe and healthy.

    Here's hoping that 2020 is a breakthrough, massively successful and innovative year with much player growth, and not a stagnant year for shroud of the avatar, and its playerbase. <raises a toast>.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
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  2. Vladamir Begemot

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    There used to be a pretty loyal group that was patiently waiting for new hair, too.
     
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  3. Stellos Hayford

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    Used to be. That's interesting. Did they lose patience, Vlad? What became of it, if I may?

    * Side note: Yep, loading up the game now, after a respite. It's taken about 3 minutes so far. Computers nearly choking on it, a computer that plays Red dead redemption for example, an i7... Aye, there's more important things than theaters. New players not committed to the project before loading just wouldn't take it kindly. It hasn't crashed to desktop, yet... but I may need to control alt-delete it before too long.

    Fast loading, good graphics, good customisation... trumps theaters every time, I'm sure.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
  4. Stellos Hayford

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    6 minutes now... The game's enjoyable, but they're worried about masterwork balance... That's a problem for when you make it in. -if- you make it in. **** needs to be fixed before 24 man raids, and theater systems take precedence, that's for sure.
     
  5. Vladamir Begemot

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    Many people have begged for better character customization over time, and better hair. Or even to remove the red from the pony tail scrunchy so it can be matched to other outfits. Not so many posts about that any more.

    My theory is that the only system that ever got a second and third and fourth major work pass is combat, so the RP, character graphics, story UI, rest of the UI, crafting, and interactivity crowd is dwindling. All those things got to the functional prototype stage and then were just dropped. People will only play with prototypes for about 5 years, it seems.

    You should probably control alt delete, you're stuck it sounds like.

    Regarding theaters, that is just in there because it was an original promise for Kickstarter. There's no way it would be even considered in the current situation, if it weren't. We've actually had a theater troupe put on a few great plays.

    Sadly, because none of the supporting stuff (character models and in particular hair styles) have gotten any attention, I'm not sure that the theater systems will get much use. The combat crowd isn't going to be putting on any plays, after all.
     
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  6. Black Tortoise

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    Still waiting for long hair... still just wearing a bandana to cover up my bad haircut - just like IRL!
     
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  7. Stellos Hayford

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    Promise or no, that stuff should be shelved in 2020... For real. For the good of the game. Shouldn't be considered regardless, at least until the major issues are fixed.

    Got half a dozen spudheads sitting in a theater, while new players try it and bail. 88%. Go figure.
     
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  8. Vladamir Begemot

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    I seriously doubt it gets worked on, and you're right, it shouldn't. Fix what's there.

    And I don't know what a spudhead is but it doesn't sound nice.
     
  9. Stellos Hayford

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    It isn't, really, though, maybe I should be slightly kinder to those that have supported the project.

    To clarify, it means potatohead. Hope that clears it up. But seriously, they should stop making demands for toilets and easter eggs and theaters, and ask for important things. In my opinion.
     
  10. majoria70

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    Well as you can see by my signature I am an early backer of the project and spoke out continuously for improved character models. I agree it is difficult to have incentive to still be here but here we are still waiting for things we are waiting for and speaking less and less from hope waning. What one person thinks is important another person doesn't. Like character models in legends of Aria for example are not very developed or good and I know people who just loved that game over this one. Our character models did get some love early on after continuous complaints but that's when we did have a couple of artists which we do not now. We have maybe one or is he a part time worker now. Who knows.

    I can't agree with character models are the first line of importance or that they are worse than other games of the same Indie sector. Final Fantasy did have a huge budget after all. We never did. True we did have a decent amount of cash at first but so many world builders verses artists and other types of talent were a large amount of them. The artists we did have were very good and I feel like the one we have still is fantastic also but has very little time to focus on character improvement types of things. So as always we speak out for what is important to us and I try to speak out some as well to missing or not completed things in the game. We do have characters and if it is a good completed game people should see that more in the beginning by how the UI works and how the game works. Does the game do a good job of letting players know what there is to do and where to go? No it does not.

    Is there still time to implement things we complain about? I think yes if they will do it with the bare-bones amount of staff left. It is a cruel thing to do to a game imo. Leave it limping along trying to survive. So much money given and so many years and hours of hoping for it to improve upon things we each feel are important and it is a slap in the face sometimes to some to get a new hat but hey I do have a hat collection display in my house. So I did look up potato head slang. I had not heard it before. Here is the meaning I found:

    potato-head. Noun. (plural potato heads) (mildly pejorative) a foolish person.

    So perhaps I'm a foolish person for staying and kick-start pledging on just a game but hey there are many who had much larger pledges for their dream for this game. Point being many watch in the sidelines and this game still could come around if only it will. One step at a time. Awe that is my new saying ;)

    So here are a few early pics of character models we had up until today.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So this is pretty much what we have today. our artist did very well in my opinion but then there just was not more time put into them. I am satisfied for now although I feel we needed a few choices of characters to build upon it did not happen yet. So for me hoping this is in the back burner except for some hairstyle type of things would be great. Also I feel the male character model chosen was not good. The first one we had was better. See below. I don't have a better pic. We did complain but to no avail. So here's to so much more coming and as always I wish this game wonderful days to come.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Vladamir Begemot

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    Nobodies demanding the theater system, the devs want to get it done since they promised. But in my opinion, since we've had several theater performances, it's basically done. If they did some lighting controls that would be nice, but whatever.

    No one is demanding anything, toilets or other, but there is a need for things to make it into the game that players will buy, so the game stays funded. Players will put in their requests, whatever it is, and sometimes it makes it. That's how the game stays afloat.
     
  12. Stellos Hayford

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    You're both fundamentally correct, on so many points, and I'm in total agreement on the validity of paying backers being entitled to make requests of the developers. Their wants are no less valid than mine. And what they request is entirely their perogative. But will they save the project? And yes, the artists did some great work, years ago, and continue to do what they're able to do with new models and things to buy on the crown store, with such limited staff and funds. I often buy items from the crown store, because I love the work they -do- do. I suppose what I'm trying to get at, trying to communicate, is that yes, it is cruel to leave the game "limping" along, as it has for a year or two now, maybe longer. To do that, I think we can agree that we need a new influx of players.

    The angle I'm trying to take, is that I don't think theaters will bring in (and retain) enough players to keep the project going for many more years. Which is what we -absolutely- need. I'm trying to pose the contention, (sometimes without tact or due respect) that I firmly believe the 2020 priorities will -not- inject renewed life into the project.

    Personally, when I read where the developers plan to take the project toward the back end of 2020, I despaired a little for the health of the project. Episode 2 is a -huge- point, and I and many others will be on that for -certain-. But more can be done to make the game better looking and more attractive to new players, I think.

    Realistically, will the players turned off during the first scene be back for episode 2? Unlikely. We need them to like what they -see-, meaning player models, user interface and such, and then perhaps they'll give the game a chance and -learn- to love it, as we have. It's a huge positive that we have so many people trying it out, I -think- Chris said 500, 700 people per -month- create an account. That's a good healthy number for a f2p. What's -not- good, is that 88% move on very quickly. We -must- retain those players, obviously. Get them to give us a chance. Handsome character models and a beautiful user interface would buy us their attention for a good while, until they interact with our wonderful community and foster friendships, maybe go on an adventure or two.

    I've made some suggestions as to what I believe will retain new players, and many other people also have. The forums are literally bursting at the seams with them.

    Hope you can understand, I've meant no -real- disrespect to any backers, nor the development team (what's left of them), both of whom I'm eternally grateful for the chance to have been a part, and will continue to be a part of this project.

    (And yes, I pledged!) :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
  13. Vladamir Begemot

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    Preachen to the chior, man.
     
  14. Bedawyn

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    I don't remember what the time frame was for the 12% retention figure, but what I really want to see is the retention rates at 1 week in, one month in, and three months in. I've seen so many new players on Twitch who start the game, wander about confused a bit until the SOTA crowd descends on their stream to help, quickly grow to love it (or at least pretend really well to love it for the sake of their audience), then despite appearing to genuinely love it, a month later they're gone and never heard from again. And that's not even considering the people who would be inclined to love it, except they aren't streaming so don't have a crowd of experienced players helping them over the initial humps.

    There are always going to be players who give something a try and find its not to their taste. There are always going to be people who play a lot for a brief period before real life calls them away. Retention a week in doesn't matter. What matters is how many of those people who love it for a week continue sticking around long enough to make the game a long-term habit and develop the kind of attachment that will keep them coming back (and spending money) month after month after month.
     
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  15. Turk Key

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    When I moved out of the city I couldn't wait to plant some fruit trees. My son was about 8 years old when the first crop of beautiful peaches ripened. He was with me when I picked and tasted the first ripe peach. It was delicious!! I gave my son half the peach and watched him bite into it, only to spit it out immediately. ''Yuck", he said "this peach is rotten". To make a long story short, he expected the peach to be crunchy, because all the peaches he had eaten in his life were bought from a supermarket and basically had been crunchy. I realized that his generation would always have different tastes than mine, different preferences, and who knows what else. Do people who are designing games nowadays have a chance to anticipate the tastes and expectations of their customers?
     
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  16. Greyfox

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    The stagnant game economy is why so many leave. Create a reason to grind, quality loot, rare drops, economic reasons to buy and upgrade property, people will stay. So long as the economy is flawed there is no long term reason to play SOTA outside community bonds which are difficult to maintain for many. I could fix this game in a few months with just a few changes, because I'm a capitalist.
     
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