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Explanations on monetization thinking on SotA

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Jun 2, 2016.

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  1. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    What was the winning condition again?
     
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  2. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    P2W is an industry-wide term with a fairly common accepted definition.

    "Winning" in an online game is completion of a campaign, and winning in PvP matches. If you get boosts that help you in combat, or help you make money faster, or gain experience faster, then these all boost your ability to beat the campaign or kill other players better.
     
  3. Noric

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    It still both displaces gold that would otherwise be used in a goldsink(inflation) and sets a value floor for CoTOs.
     
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  4. Snikorts

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    @Time Lord I suck in PVP too :p

    In early 2000's I was UO junkie and there were a moments when I was grinding 48+ hours nonstop.
    Now it's 2016 and I want something more from MMO than just never-ending procrastination from RL through repetitive actions :)

    @enderandrew anonymous survey is a great idea!
     
  5. Noric

    Noric Avatar

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    I don't think that it does. It may be a widely recognized concept that has a lot of similar definitions , but i personally disagree with the definition you provided and doubt i am totally alone.
     
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  6. KuBaTRiZeS

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    I kind of see the point behind enderandrew's words but I'm also interested in how you'd define P2W, and why you don't agree with enderandrew's. Could you please elaborate?

    I find kind of funny how we all are using the same term but may not agree in the definition! sometimes people argue because they are not talking about the same things :D
     
  7. Satan Himself

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    I thought Pay to Win was buying jewelry for women?:confused:
     
  8. Gideon Thrax

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    Nope - that's just paying... add a bottle of wine to the equation, and now you're winning! :D
     
  9. monkeysmack

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    Wow! Thanks for posting this comment as it really shows what's going on here. I was trying to determine why someone would get so upset about allowing players to pay for small in game boosts but this comment has made it crystal clear. It's being called "pay 2 win" by those that define "'winning" as beating everyone else in the game (i.e., being superior). That is the presupposition being used when someone says pay 2 win. That's why I asked in a previous post "How does one 'win' this game?"
    Having something that someone else has DOES NOT effect the value of that thing for you. UNLESS the value depends on them NOT having that thing. That's called SUPERIORITY. Plain and simple. For people with the goal of superiority, earning an achievement in game is worthless or called "grinding", "unfair" or whatever, if someone else can simply buy that achievement (or some sort of speed up boost). The argument that it took time for the player to earn the money they are spending on the game boost is useless to these people.

    The contorted logic of this commenter is amusing. He is vigorously trying to absolve himself of the crime he has already committed when he says "It has nothing to do with superiority, it has to do with enjoyment and pacing". :rolleyes: NO, in fact, it has nothing to do with the game experience. He just wants to beat other people and "win". I'm not really saying that this goal is good/bad. I'm just trying to cut through the BS and make explicit the assumptions going into these discussions.

    So why don't I, personally, care if someone can buy in game boosts? Because my goals in playing this game are 1. personal achievement and intellectual stimulation, and 2. having fun experiences along the way (e.g., playing in a guild, going out on group raids, helping other players). The progression and 'pacing' of other players has little impact on these goals. For example, I have +9 Fustian Cloth boots that I made. I enjoy having them and it's an achievement for me in the game. If another player sells COTO and uses the gold to buy the same boots from another crafter, GOOD FOR HIM/HER! I could care less. I hope he/she enjoys them as much as I do. The only time I would care about purchasing boosts is if it adversely effected MY game play and experience. For example, will it wreck the economy? I suppose it could effect me if there was full loot open PvP and the PKers could fast progress and gank me all the time. But, then again this, in itself, might be an interesting aspect of the game (i.e., intellectually stimulating).

    Edit: This comment was started before reading the last 5 comments so we are channeling the same issue it seems.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  10. Grave Dragon

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    It doesnt displace gold, because you didn't have to earn the gold from killing monsters to pay the taxes. No gold injected and none removed from the economy.

    It does set a value floor for COTO'S (which would actually stabilize the player market for them) but it doesn't matter because a the sale of a COTO from player to player is a p2p gold exchange, again no gold is gained or lost from an economy perspective, it just shifts between players.
     
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  11. Noric

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    The only time it doesn't displace gold is if people only pay taxes with gold they wouldn't have gathered otherwise. My own personal experience with taxes had this circumstance extremely rare, so i do not consider it an effective countereargument.

    As for the price floor stuff , i believe they specifically want players setting price so if it's an entirely different concern than inflation.
     
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  12. Grave Dragon

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    Good points and I understand them. It's largely perception though, because I have a lot of taxable lots. I make intentional trips to various adventuring scenes specifically to earn gold for taxes. If I didn't have a need to pay those taxes, I could either eliminate those trips completely or pay taxes with gold earned through regular gameplay.

    From my perspective this is just a reinforcing reason why the impact would be minimal and the convenience would be sufficient motivation to pay real dollars for people like me. The level of impact it would have is also pretty evident based on the fact that all the new housing packages and the PoT only deeds all include tax free lots.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
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  13. monkeysmack

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  14. redfish

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    No Girls' Generation on these forums!
    [​IMG]
     
  15. monkeysmack

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    I thought they were laughing at me because I'm sitting naked at my computer :oops:
     
  16. Ashlynn [Pax]

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    Is a design decision Portalarium makes based on increasing revenue, or is it to make the game a better/more fun/immersive experience. It really is that simple for me.

    I'm totally fine with the fact that Portalarium needs to make money but I'm not going to pretend those efforts are to make the game a better "experience". I fully expect to suffer from not buying any crowns, and I won't be buying any. I shall report back as I go post final wipe.
     
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  17. Black Tortoise

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    Cant dedicate myself to reading all umpteen pages of this, but I want to say @Chris : excellent post. All my concerns are alleviated. I like the direction this is going.

    Also whoa R30 is beautiful... I am feeling very positive about SotA in general, especially after this post.
     
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  18. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    I think the game is finally updated! Maybe i can try out R30 briefly tonight (and over the weekend). :D
     
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  19. Aurelius Silverson

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    Even though it wasn't me you asked to elaborate, I'd like to chip in with how I think about the P2W concept anyway, so here goes....

    It's true enough in terms of 'industry wide' concepts - but their concept heavily equates playing with competing, and especially regarding an mmo with hefty RP potential, not all players are looking for the game experience that the 'industry' thinks they are, or even acting how the designers (or even some other players) think they 'should' be playing. The P2W term gets used inappropriately at times, because 'playing' is not always the same as 'competing', but they so often get conflated.

    Quite often the experience folks are after is utterly devoid of 'competition' - so for the game I will be playing, 'pay to win' is pretty much impossible. As with all things involving lots of people, even with a generally shared 'interest', nothing applies to everyone, and quite often the proportion of the people the generalisations are accurate about is not as dominant as is assumed.

    It's a genuine and valid problem for many, and needs addressing because of that - but the impact or even concept of 'P2W' is not equal for all playstyles.
     
  20. TheMaddHungarian

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    Yeah!!! With their RNG-Drops maybe just maybe 1 out of every 30-50 or even 100 lol .......no.......lmao
     
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