Extreme Rares

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by Bowen Bloodgood, Sep 16, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. OverLord

    OverLord Avatar

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Dark side of the moon
    Rares in UO were largely a coding problem, mistakes made by the devs left some tiles open to interaction. The extreme rares happened once, the first day of launch, and were self-fixing during the first server maintenance. Other mistakes happened daily/weekly/monthly during the respective maintenance periods that affected them. Fruit baskets could be had daily, hay could be had weekly and water tiles could be had monthly, until devs found them and locked them down. Some of these mistakes created real problems. A bag in a building that was not locked down but not an intended player item allowed a player to place a forge in it and then pick up the bag and walk off. A forge in a bag was quite the item for a miner.

    In other words the rares were not intentional, which by definition made them rare.

    About your idea - Creating items out of thin air with the intention of making them rares and selling them to the highest bidder has one fatal flaw, it does not create a true rares market. Players do not get immersed in the hunt of rares since they know that the rares they seek can not be had short of paying gold for them. The prospect of getting a rare from the world led to people creating and visiting websites about the rares they sought. Knowing that the rare came from server birth for example made it a true rare. The same feeling isn't obtained by owning something that was intentionally created to be rare and intentionally created for the rich by the devs. Having somethng nobody else has is great but you need to earn it or be fortunate enough to find it, having to pay for it lessens it somehow.
     
    Lord Aquila Burnden likes this.
  2. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    Whether by accident or design doesn't change the fact that anyone can happen across something.. to suggest you haven't earned something because it's in the world by design isn't logical. Rare is rare regardless of how it got there.

    So would you rather have immersion breaking rares? Or rares that actually make sense? Personally I'd like the value of items in the world to make sense and not remind me that some developer somewhere screwed up.
     
    Mishri, Margard and Spoon like this.
  3. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

    Messages:
    2,020
    Likes Received:
    3,002
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    CH

    Yes. Exactly.

    This was precisely the point I made in another thread. I observed a similar phenomenon in another MMO. Basically the common items had not been bid up to the sky but were at normal levels, and that was despite the huge inflation of the gold supply. The counter-balance I conjectured was the rares market. Infact I said it here in this dev+ thread back in February: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/economic-monitoring.27/page-2#post-127877 (topic now closed). So your statement is ~almost~ a proof of my conjecture.


    To quote myself...

    Broad inflation of the gold supply didn't lead to broad inflation across the common items because people hoarded gold and then traded for rares. Once you consider that possibility then it becomes obvious in hindsight (imo ;))
     
    Mishri and Spoon like this.
  4. Duke Olahorand

    Duke Olahorand Localization Team

    Messages:
    1,287
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Germany
    Selling any kind of rares could be a gold sink - depends on the sales tax. If the tax is taken based on the price level - the higher the price the higher the percentage of sales tax - then gold would leave the system.
    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
    Spoon likes this.
  5. The Tibbz

    The Tibbz Avatar

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I always liked the idea of this (a la EQ2) Common, Rare and Exceptionally rare harvests
     
  6. Zarad

    Zarad Avatar

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    I love rare items and objects but I also enjoy farming mobs for rare drops not everyone feels this way of course but I spent hours upon hours farming in UO to obtain rare items and tried to be present on server start to snag rare items it was a lot of fun, I support rare items and extreme rare items. UO got rather dull after trammel because items were easy to obtain and the market got flooded with stuff, gathering items loses its appeal when its no longer challenging to get them whatever they may be.
     
  7. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    One of the problems with the UO rare market is a lot of rares were bugs. Which made their appearance both predictable and reliable. Server goes down.. everyone knew exactly where to pick up that piece of horse droppings and that it would be there when the server came back up. The sort of thing we want to avoid here.
     
    Jatvardur, Mishri and Tahru like this.
  8. Meyaka2

    Meyaka2 Avatar

    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Location:
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    I also like the idea of super rare havistable materials.
     
  9. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

    Messages:
    4,800
    Likes Received:
    12,170
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spite
    I like bloody rare steak as long as I can chew it.
     
    Cordelayne likes this.
  10. Zarad

    Zarad Avatar

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    so you suggest rare items should appear in random location by design not as bugs which is fine but even though these items were bugs it added a fun and exciting factor to the game (even if they were not intended) and placing those rare object in my house was very satisfying when I managed to obtain them.
     
    Tahru likes this.
  11. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    for some.. that aspect of UO really got on my nerves. a pile of horse crap should never sell for 1 million gold. We should be able to have a system here that makes us both happy. :)
     
  12. E n v y I I

    E n v y I I Avatar

    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    8

    The demand will determine the price. Players an put whatever price they want on something.....doesn't mean it will sell. If there is 'horse crap' for sale at 1 million gold......if someone wants to buy it then good luck to them.
     
  13. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    That's true up unto a point. You'd have be one crazy loon to spend that much for handful of fertilizer. The thing is though in that example.. the demand is artificially high. If it were a real world.. horse poo would be abundant and consequently worthless. It wouldn't be considered rare by any stretch of the imagination. Even if it was rare it wouldn't be useful.. it's certainly not pretty to look at.. so there would still be no demand for it.

    Demand should be believable within the context of the world. That was not at all true in UO.
     
  14. Morkul

    Morkul Avatar

    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    602
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gothenburg
    If we have a player driven economy where all items are manufactured by PC that would not be a problem. If horse poo would be worth that much more will collect it and the prize go down. So be keeping the player producing everything you never get artificially high demand.

    Thing is that people find beauty in rarity, a rare item is quite often more worth than a common items even if it's looking like crap. Add to that the beauty and value is in the eye of the beholder and it's enough that two people like the item to start a bidding war and prize can get much higher than the items is actually worth. Go to a car auction a few times and you will notice how the same car sometimes sells for 20 000 next time for 70 000 (Yes I have seen just that prize range for the exact same car) all depending on that the second time there was two that wanted that car.

    This is a part of life. So as long as devs keep their promise that everything in the game will be produced by players the we will get a supply/demand scenario that mimic real life pretty good.
     
  15. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    hmmm well let me redefine my position a little. If an individual wants to spend so much on something that would be dumb in real life, ok that's their prerogative. I just don't want to see it as common place. Well, I think everyone knows what I mean. I don't want an immersion breaking market. I can't seem to say that enough. :)
     
  16. Morkul

    Morkul Avatar

    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    602
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gothenburg
    I fully understand what you mean but I do not see that becoming a problem. As I said if something becomes that expensive more players will start manufacture it and price go down.

    My guess is that the first player to get skill level high enough to craft truly good plate will get huge pile of gold for that but once more crafters get to that level the prices will go gown. But I see to problem with that either, rather the opposite because it's how a well functioning market should work.
     
    Bowen Bloodgood likes this.
  17. Etheom

    Etheom Avatar

    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    477
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Georgia, USA
    I like the idea of rare items as long as everything is 100% crafted.
     
  18. Duke William of Serenite

    Duke William of Serenite Avatar

    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    4,429
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Grunvald
    Giving players even a sliver of a chance of finding that rare piece of ore will give miners a carrot to keep them awake. I think all activities should have a rare chance of rewarding a player with something sought after. I like the fact that alot of work has been put into crafting in SOTA. I do plan to craft and sell wares in Serenite.

    This game needs to launch already geez!!

    Good post.
     
  19. Dorham Isycle

    Dorham Isycle Avatar

    Messages:
    1,990
    Likes Received:
    2,887
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    If your prospecting isn't high enough, you would not see the ore right in front if you.
    Prospecting high
    Mining high
    Smelting medium
    Skill points used up.....sigh
    Here, you smelt this quazite.
     
    Bowen Bloodgood likes this.
  20. PeteWi The Disoriented

    PeteWi The Disoriented Avatar

    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    426
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stinging Tree Hollow
    I agree, a rare item is a rare item. Anybody with a pan or shovel can find a huge chunk of gold or unearth a diamond, it should have nothing to do with skill. Pure dumb luck, is pure dumb luck. :)

    Maybe there will be certain recipes that can only be completed with these rare items, but they should have a bit more than just aesthetics. They shouldn't make Uber weapons, but a bit of a bump here or there wouldn't be a bad thing. The $35k watch should do something a little bit more than the $10 one, no?

    Maybe it's a light source or adds 1% to something. It could work like the Prosperity tools where you have a slightly higher ability. It shouldn't just make it more valuable gold wise.
     
    Lord Baldrith likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.