Feedback thread for Rent Flier announcement

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hroth, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:31 AM.

  1. hroth

    hroth Avatar

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    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ck-thread-for-rent-flier-announcement.110096/
    That's great news, thanks @DarkStarr!

    I have a question about reputation. It'd be great to have some sort of reputation system so that tenants might not pay their rent on the 1st of the month, spend hard earned hours decorating their tenancy, and then get immediately evicted on day 3 of their rent just because the landlord wants to rent the space to someone else for another monthly rent.

    In reading a sticky thread within the Rental Services subforum:

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/what-is-the-rental-system.96865/

    this does come up, and one response is that the forum profiles might be used. However, a member points out:

    "Negative feedback will be removed when reported, only positive feedback is allowed. :eek:"​
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f.../what-is-the-rental-system.96865/#post-857555


    Is there a rule against leaving negative feedback on a forum profile? I am not a tenant, but a landlord - but I certainly would want to know if another landlord is preying on beginners out there starting Novian life as a tenant. I think the current system is flexible and need not be reprogrammed (and maybe there are RP landlords who enjoy being a 'slumlord') but if there is a rule against leaving negative feedback on a forum profile, it seems like there is no Defense Against The Dark Arts... :)

    Ben
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2018 at 2:32 PM
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  2. Mapper

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    What are the actual plans for opening up more housing spots? Currently you can’t buy new lot deeds, yet most the PRTs are empty and I’ve seen NPC towns diminishing. I’d happily buy a lot deed right now but just can’t.
     
  3. Apollo31

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    As long as the terms of rental are clearly stated I have no problem with immediate eviction. Maybe a grace period could be built in, but if you don't pay your rent, you get evicted. The same could be said of the reputation of the person paying the rent late.
     
  4. Lord Andernut

    Lord Andernut Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    @DarkStarr - if promoting the rent system (whether free or paid) as an alternative to housing ownership, a formal method of payment between tenant and owner that does not rely on memory would be good.

    Something as "simple" as tying tenancy permissions to a fee. So "Add tenant: Hroth: daily fee = 0 gold coins" would never expire as a tenant. "Add tenant: Darkstarr: daily fee = 100,000 coins" and there could be a grace period, or not.

    Also, I think that if you are highlighting rental/tenancy/free housing they should be VERY clear that being a "tenant" protects their possessions, whereas being added as a "co-owner" etc. does NOT protect their possessions form the deed holder. Perhaps something in-game on gaining permissions to a lot for the first time. It's a bit convoluted with the various tiers of lot ownership vs the separate tenant system.
     
  5. Sentinel2

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    IMO, the permissions system needs some love. It's not very intuitive currently and what documentation I've found hasn't been all that great in explaining it. I've experimented with it a bit. And I've seen other successfully figure it out. Still, moving forward, I would think it needs a little work.

    Maybe some way to collect fee's would be nice too :)
     
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  6. majoria70

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    I love what has so far been implemented in regards to the rental system. We will need renting option to make housing a truly viable system in this game imo. So far I'm not using my Inn to charge anyone rent. It is on a taxed free deed though and tenants are a very good way to help pay taxes. I know more is coming on this. I have voiced ideas about a key system where renters purchase keys associated with doors that have timers that pay their rent. In my example keys can be crafted and associated with doors. Now I've had another idea as shown below along with the keys idea is a registration book idea ;)

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now to add to this idea another idea I had to pay rent and to make renting in game easier is to have a craftable and add on version of a open book registration book that players can place and be placed place like on a counter in your Inn or outside your rental building on a table to click on to register for a particular room. All available rooms in the house would show on the book. Perhaps landlords can click vacant or not available on the book menu by right clicking the book. The cash register we are getting made me think of this. Now to make an open book registration version;)

    Please consider something like this too so possible tenants can just click on the registration book players have set out, when registering perhaps they buy the room for an amount of time on a timer and have to re-register after that time has ran out. Their payment could go to landlords mail as vendor purchases now do. Perhaps landlords could set up registration book price for rooms which list all doors in the property and can click each to add price and available or not in the book.

    So again When the timer runs out, they need to sign the book again and re-register for the rental amount which can be set at zero dollars too. When registering they get the notice that this will happen, perhaps there is a timer on their door like our taxed lots say how many days are left.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 11:02 PM
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  7. Cypher Black

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    I do not think that I would be giving anyone called "Darkstarr" a grace period. Just sayin. :)

    Cypher Black
     
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  8. Sean Silverfoot

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    Deed sales are proportionate to amount of lots in game. Excluding POT's
     
  9. Lifedragn

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    I feel like the rental system is just a band-aid over the housing system being too restricted, moreso in the terms of deeds and lots than taxes. The daily oracle visit can maintain a row pretty well if one if fortunate enough to have a deed. Hopefully this will be better remedied for Episode 2. Hopefully the rent system doesn't turn off too many new players. I personally would not rent, and would probably be no longer playing had I not been fortunate enough to win a deed of my own. Housing is just that important of a feature to me. Probably the most important feature this game is offering me.
     
  10. Kain Darkmoor

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    This is an excellent idea. There are so many great player towns who are willing to rent to new players for free or reduced fees until they get their feet wet in the game. Communicating this can only be a positive thing.
     
  11. Katu

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    Constructive feedback incoming.
    Port stated that they take no responsibility about RMT. Then there's renting for cotos/rmt.
    Now, we introduce new players that "this way you can get house", yet scamming is definitely coming along. No game ever, has been without it, where two human can make transaction.

    So, how can port protect new players on these issues?
    What if I pay rent and I still don't get the estate? What if Im falsely, with fake reason, kicked out, after paying with cotos I just bought?
     
  12. Mapper

    Mapper Avatar

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    What does that actually mean, that all the empty lots are accounted for and are players who don’t play ? That’s not good news either.
     
  13. majoria70

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    This game advertises housing and it must deliver on that and let the world know the advantages of all types of housing offered in this game for the good of the game. Even renting a room in this game is superior to most games housing and that is the best thing about it.

    I don't agree that this game should have transactions between 2 players to rent a room. Now what do I mean by that? Ok so a player has rooms on property that they want to rent right? So landlord says to potential renter 'ok the rent is 100 gold a week for example' and 'potential renter says ok I'll mail that to you every Sunday'. Ok so deal made right?. Then 'potential renter has life stuff come up or doesn't have the gold to pay the landlord or just decides not to. So what then? Put them in jail or nada since that part of the system is not developed. I don't care about being paid rent is why I don't charge it but that is just me. It solves nothing. Being a rent collector is not what we signed on for right?

    So here is the problem as I see it:

    Leaving the rent paying transactions totally between two players is a mistake in that this is just a game. To me this totally sucks leaving this part of our rental system incomplete. IMO Having a way to automatically pay rent is important.

    So sure a landlord can evict the player from their rented space if they choose sending the tenants things to the tenants bank. So if that were to happen and someone had a flaky landlord sure well go to another rental since there are tons of them out there and then carry on playing.

    So for me I don't choose to charge rent and I will not evict unless the player never comes back. I do request that we are allowed to charge zero rent of course if we desire.

    The hugest problem with having this transaction happen between two players is it should not be between 2 players in the first place. Having keys to buy to keep the room opened and available or buying a registration spot are two ideas to take this away from player verses player interactions. If the timers run out then that is known at the start that this can happen. Players being evicted well some circumstances may warrant it and I'm not sure what that could be. Port did an amazing job getting the tenant system in and truly I believe we need the one more step taken where rent is collected through a key system or a registration system or any other ideas. Then players are freed up to just play the game and not worry about it all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 4:29 AM
  14. Lars vonDrachental

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    I think too that such a system as @majoria70 suggested is at least reasonable…and something like a contract comes to my mind.
    Opening the contract you see a standard text interrupted by some adjustable text boxes for values like payment method/interval/timeframe of the contract/contractual penalties/object of the contract/…
    Once the contract is prepared the renting avatar has to sign this contract with his name.
    By signing the contract the rights for the room/lot are automatically adjusted to give the contract signer the right to move in and from now on the system will be more or less like it is for taxed lots and each day the defined value will be removed from renter’s credit. The renter can again use gold or coto the raise the credit and the landlord gets the rent from the system (maybe even with some minor transaction fees if there is some kind of sink needed).

    And if such a system is working the mechanic could be even extended to single items as a secure way to share them temporarly without the “fear” of a possible loss and would offer the possibility to e.g. open a costume rental.
    Or it could be used for services like as long as the contract is active you pay someone to do a music performance in your tavern each friday or you make a contract with some guards to protect you in a mine while you harvest some ore or you would like to hire some actors for your theatre or you pay someone to refine your pile of ore or...
     
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  15. Sean Silverfoot

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    All NPC town lots and player town lots are accounted in that number. That's not saying that they don't have more place anywhere deeds to raffle off. But it is a finite number. PoT lot's are different as there is no accounting for individual designs. That being said, more land opens up in E2. Nothing has been said about how that would be handled. E2 sales get first crack, then transfers, should be interesting discussions when that time comes around.

    I'm not going to give any opinions on it as they haven't said anything or are even discussing E2. But my understanding is more land with each new Episode.
     
  16. Katu

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    Paging @DarkStarr , this thread needs a bit of clarifications from the teaaammm.
     
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  17. Berek

    Berek Senior Community Manager Moderator SOTA Developer

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  18. TheBalance

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    Majoria, this is an outstanding illustration of arguably the biggest problem with this system (although, fairly, there are others almost as big) - but one at a time!

    This whole rent idea is coming off, to me at least, as a rushed implementation of a system that needs MUCH more thought and refinement regarding its mechanics. Accompany all that with a TON more interaction between the developers potentially making the decisions on implementing this, how they see it working/being added to a month after its made live, and whatever other pertinent information we need to help provide them with the insight and feedback with a system a lot of us spend a TON of time in.

    I'm worried this is going to be a rushed implementation aimed to simply exist in the game as a selling point at launch, even if it doesn't work as intended, or at all. There's a lot to dig into with this, please, give us the communication we need to ensure all the players that literally live in this system are heard and happy with what's being put in place.

    Or, at the very least, add a few safeguards akin to what Majoria said above, to not destroy immersion and prevent exploitation of late rent, etc. ruining the experience(s) of entire neighborhoods.
     
  19. TheBalance

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    Wait a minute, what? That link is to the announcement itself, and its locked - where no feedback can be given. Then that thread links back here, which links back to the announcement - this reads like a weird infinite loop and is definitely going to confuse people who don't speak English as a first language.

    Can we get this kinda stuff worded a little better as to not cause needless confusion? If this is the feedback thread for that announcement, could you literally just add three words to your post avoid this kin of confusion? "This is the Feedback thread..."

    Also - maybe sticky that post so it sits at the top of this thread and clearly explains its purpose as new individuals read it for the first time? Having it 3/4's of the way to the bottom of the first page is likely to get it missed by many.
     
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  20. redfish

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    @TheBalance

    Its a preliminary implementation, yea. The devs probably believe its good enough for launch, and that more can be added later on top of it later.

    Personally, I hope we'll eventually see a browseable bulletin board system in game too, so we won't need flyers on boards that link to the Marketplace forums; people could just browse all that through the game.

    A lot can be done to make this all work better.

    Would it be better to have something more refined at launch? Yea. I'm not sure if it will be a big problem not to have it, though.