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First Quarter 2015 Schedule Update

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Dec 18, 2014.

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  1. Voltar

    Voltar Avatar

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    Attitudes like that are what kill games before they ever get out of beta. I've been in dozens of Alpha/Beta... and I'm talking real tests before Beta test became a marketing ploy. There are plenty of ways to make Beta fun and interesting. Forcing people to grind through content over and over again is a good way to get the game a terrible image prior to release and kill any chance you have at getting any decent sort of sales numbers. Look at Vangaurd... that could have been a fantastic game. I was the alpha for that game and it was fantastic in the beginning... the devs killed it. The word got out that it was a grindy mess, they lost investors, no-one wanted to risk spending money on it and it died. And the whole time we were in the Dev forums (Which were closed to the public unlike these) screaming about the poor state of beta and how unfun it was getting and people sat there, just like you, saying "Not everyone's cut out for testing" That's BS... if you're a potential customer, you're cut out for testing, and if you find the current content unfun, The game failed the test. Ignore that with some snarky comment like there's something wrong with the tester and your games doomed from the start.

    Character and Skills wipes are TERRIBLE. They should never be done unless absolutely required. There's no way they are ready to test skills balance, progression or any of that yet. That's like the last think to get sorted out. So short of some sort of major database change that can't be done without clearing the old data, they should not be resetting anything of that sort yet.
     
  2. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    First off, welcome to the community.

    Character and skill wipes can drive people away. Many games don't let people until beta. At that point it is feature complete, or close to it and they are just fixing bugs.

    With SotA, people were in pretty much from day one when they had a room and a chicken. The wipes are necessary because they need us to test progression, spending skill points, checking out the new skills and trees they add in each release, etc.

    They didn't wipe for R13 and I think the design is to wipe less frequently now. They will only wipe if a system really requires it, such as wiping houses/land for R14 since they are adding pledge rewards. R14 will likely have a full wipe again, but I'm not sure R15 will have a wipe at all.

    Edit: I also want to point out that the SotA community has been great at creating community events and making the game worth while until release.
     
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  3. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

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    @Voltar

    You make good points that wipes should be minimized and every attempt to make the game fun at the early stages should be made. Your point about the potential for people to read the phrase "Not everyone's cut out for testing" as condescending it also a good one.

    However, it is also fair to say that many people do not realize about the wipes and they think they play the game early, but it will be a work in progress. They will be sorely disappointed and view the whole experience as a waste of time. I share that view for 99.9% of the games I have played. I can't speak for enderandrew, but that is more or less how I read it what he meant. It's all cool though.
     
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  4. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Avatar

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    You may have taken his post the wrong way there, he is one of the people actively helping and welcoming people to the community. Testing is not for everybody, it is not an insult.
     
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  5. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

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    That's true testing isn't for everyone. People who come in with the expectation that this is a complete game can do more harm. It is better they wait till the game is in beta or finished before joining the rest of us.
     
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  6. Voltar

    Voltar Avatar

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    Right, but this is an MMO. There is a very real danger that the game will eventually be perceived as a Sisyphean effort. Especially when it's a game like this... designed to be a little more involved. The argument that "Well we let you in early, it's supposed to be like this! For testing!" has been made in every failed MMO beta I've ever been in. Trust me, Vangaurd that I mention was in far far better shape than this game is and was considered to be revolutionary while still in early Alpha. But the grind wore on people. They reset our characters over and over... to get "balance" right. Meanwhile there was an entire continent that hadn't been built yet. How can you work on "balance" when 2/3rds of the map are literally missing. Sadly, that's giving me a bit too much deja vous regarding SOTA. If you haven't played it, despite what you may have heard, Vangaurd was a fantastic game. It definitely had some bugs at release but had the community been behind them, that would have worked itself out. Instead the community was in open revolt well before they even started sales.

    With the original UO Beta, they accelerated Skill progression so it was easier to get back up to speed after a wipe if I remember correctly (granted that was a very very long time ago) Other games did the same though. I've even been in some games where they accepted volunteers for character wipes and exchanged privileges for the effort. You'd get special titles at release, things like that.

    Don't get me wrong, I've no idea if this game will succeed or not. I've been in enough betas to know it's very hard to tell at this stage. But complaints about grindy game play and frequent character resets and such are all over these forums. I cannot stress enough that that perception cannot continue. These are the canary in the coal mine. I've seen them before and they do no lead to anything good.
     
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  7. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

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    First, since I forgot to say it before, Welcome! Thanks for my new word of the day too, Sisyphean :)

    I can only hope things will turn out good in the end. I don't take the forums too seriously. But I think the bug reports and release feedback forums are pretty good. I am also hoping for more things to do in the game. What is keeping me around now is all the nice folks here.

    Also, one big takeaway for me from the last dev broadcast is they have been burning a lot of time trying to move up to Unity 5. I am sure that is not the end all be all, but once that is over, I am hoping to see an even faster pace.
     
  8. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    I can understand where someone might make an easy connection between Vanguard and SotA.

    Vanguard was a spiritual successor to Everquest and SotA is a spiritual successor to Ultima/Ultima Online.

    The biggest difference is that Vanguard was being designed and run by Brad McQuaid. It is well documented at this point he had some serious personality issues as well as drug addiction. He was creative and visionary, but he wasn't reigned in by producers because his ego wouldn't allow him to be reigned in.

    With SotA, Richard is the visionary and creative-type. But to Richard's credit, he takes feedback and is willing to adjust his ideas to that feedback. Starr is a good producer who knows the limits of what is possible with time and budget. They have a good financial mind in Dallas as well.

    I trust the people running this company. There is a very fine line with wanting to be very inclusive early, have a very transparent design process, try to get funding early and potentially scaring people away with the early design/testing process. If anything I was worried they went to Steam Early Access a little too early. But so far, it has been mostly beneficial.
     
  9. Logain

    Logain Avatar

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    You mean something like special rare prestige items?

    Phew! Good thing the game's still far from beta! ;)
    I'm not even sure why people think that they have to 'grind'. They often enough decide to, just that there's no logic reason. You can do everything you'd want to do just as fine without grinding (I include the potentially having to wait till R14/Pledge rewards in that statement).
     
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  10. Rino182PM

    Rino182PM Avatar

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    According to developers plans there are a lot of terretories in Novia will be added, but could some1 tell me, how can I explore them? Will it be global map, like on Hidden Vale? For now I'm in Ardoris and I can't find the way to leave it and start Novia travelling (maby I'm a bit stupid and can find the way out)...
     
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  11. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    Eventually there will be a big overland map like the way we have for Hidden Vale that will cover the main continent of Novia.

    Ardoris is one city of Novia, and since the main map of Novia isn't accessible yet, that is why there are no exits in Ardoris yet. You can do one of three things to get out of Ardoris:

    1. Click on the boat to return to Kingsport
    2. Exit to main menu and the select "Start on map"
    3. Zone to another player with /zone FOO

    Edit: Welcome to the community, BTW. If you need help, feel free to:

    /friend Erik O'Connor

    I'll be glad to help you.
     
  12. Rino182PM

    Rino182PM Avatar

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    Thanks much for your warm warm welcome and your answer. As I read forum all travels are possnle only through lunar rift? So I can reach new zones same way, as I understand.
     
  13. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    Right now, the Lunar Rift in Owl's Head lets you access some scenes on the mainland that you can't get to any other way (since the mainland map isn't open otherwise). But there are other scenes you can just walk to on the Hidden Vale such as:

    Dragon Cave
    Winston's Folly
    North/South/Deep Ravenswood
    Owl's Nest
    etc
     
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  14. Corgano

    Corgano Avatar

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    one more way to leave Ardoris...

    there's a small boat just outside the walls that will take you across the river. If you head out into the hills, eventually the screen will fade out as you leave the Ardoris city limits; but instead of taking you to the world map in Novia, it just puts you back on the Hidden Vale map in Kingsport.

    (I was trying to figure out how to get out of the city last night, other than the three you mentioned, and just started running everywhere to see where it would go)

    edit: make that two ways.... you can dive off the dock and swim out into the bay until it fades to black (same result as walking out... world map in Kingsport)
     
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  15. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

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    Speaking of taking the boat between the mainland and the hidden vale... didn't they mention something about having to be ready to defend your boat too? That might be interesting too.
     
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  16. smack

    smack Avatar

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    Yes, that was in the $1.6M KS Stretch Goal:
     
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  17. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    Right. Now they could in my opinion be stretched out over the 5 episodes I believe. I do not think they will get all of them in for the first episode.
     
  18. Spoon

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    Yes.
    But I would recommend this weeks update
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=47600
    They link one of @TheMadHermit 's vids there which will show you a map of Novia and the locations of some of what is in right now.
     
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  19. rune_74

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    I'm hoping we can't explore too much of Novia before launch or it will kind of ruin the game.
     
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  20. Bow Vale

    Bow Vale Avatar

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    If you don't want to know what you are getting for Christmas don't look ! I always used to peep in the top of the wardrobe and see what i was getting as a kid, but i obviously never played with any of them. Just gave me anticipation of what fun i would be having.....Ill look :)
     
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