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Flagged PVP - Ganked by PVE-ers!

Discussion in 'Release 28 Feedback Forum' started by Fister Magee, Apr 2, 2016.

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  1. Kara Brae

    Kara Brae Avatar

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    Ah, thank you for this information.
     
  2. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    Here's an idea that seems to me would mete out a wee bit of justice:

    If you are non-flagged, and attack a PVP flagged individual, then whether or not you kill that individual, you are flagged PVP and remain that way for as long as your victim remains pvp flagged....

    Just a thought. I think that would certainly make someone think twice about trying to gank someone in this fashion ;)
     
  3. StrangerDiamond

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    Yeah some days I wonder :(

    To those who think it dosen't happen : Well thats mainly because there is not much reasons for it to happen yet, watch when people compete for ressources or even vending areas. This is literally hell on britannia for pvp flagged people.

    In fact it feel like punishment... feels like my guilt pledge is being ignored and pouring salt on the wound is a national sport.
     
  4. Swipes

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    Really stupid.
     
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  5. smack

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    I'm ok with unflagged players attacking me when I'm flagged. It keeps me on my toes, makes me watch my back constantly, forcing me to always be prepared to fight. But...I'm not ok with how silly and stupidly easy it is to remove that temporary flag. Choices and actions should have consequences so they become meaningful. As currently implemented, it's idiotic, mindless and meaningless.

    That said, I think/hope they will address it at some point. But PvP is not a current priority, as you all know. So until then...watch your backs :)
     
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  6. Gatsu.

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    this is why on UO there are cities without GUARDS... where a pk can buy reagents... and kill everyone coming from outside ...
     
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  7. Poor game design

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    This is the dumbest mechanic that's ever been created - that's the answer you're looking for.

    No risk, all reward. I spoke out on this several times.

    The reason this was created was because a small group of players decided they didn't want to be flagged all the time, they just wanted to be able to jump people that were (but only when they had the advantage and those people didn't know they were going to be jumped). Because these people can't or don't have the stomach to fight in situations when they may not have the advantage of numbers, they want to be able to "help out" their friends and guildmates, or just pile on to an already known outcome. In short they don't really want to pvp, they just want to be on the winning (no risk) side of pvp.

    As the population of the game grows, this will make being flagged open pvp far less attractive and allow gank squads to flourish at the expense of solo pvp players. This is the kind of mechanic that should never have been put into the game. The devs knew it, but felt pressure from this small group of people.
     
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  8. sake888

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    If this is true, I have a sick feeling about this thing I chose to pledge my money towards, as I'm almost sure my pledge dollars would pale in comparison to this small group's.
     
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  9. Poor game design

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    It is true. It happened live for all to see during one of the telethon/hangouts.

    And also, I've spent about as much money as this group probably has combined so I don't think that's a factor.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  10. Ancev

    Ancev Bug Hunter

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    One way to control it would be having the oracle track unflagged players that attack pvp flagged players. After X amount of occurrences, your character has a PvP flag for X amount of hours? Go to the Oracle and pay a 2500g fine to have your protection restored or the timer reduced? Or just let the timer wear off.
     
  11. Poor game design

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    Attacks of opportunity are not something we should strive to encourage. (not with reduced risk)

    The model of risk vs. reward needs to be more balanced than what you're suggesting. If we're all flagged for pvp, that system kind of works. But when someone can sit back 100% protected, size up their opponents, and carefully pick who and perhaps more importantly when to attack, that's simply not fair. It's not in the spirit of fair. It's a system that is made to exploit, to avoid risk and to gain the rewards of pvp without ever losing. It's pvp ala carte.

    In this environment, no one will pvp unless they're masochists or they have the advantage. This system (current) as well as your proposal, creates a suppressed pvp in a world that has already suppressed pvp quite a bit.

    @Chris
    @DarkStarr
    What I'd like to see is the following:

    1. Remove the ability to pvp ala carte when the moment serves you and the opportunity is to your advantage. Make players flag for pvp or be in a pvp zone. No exceptions.
    2. When a player wishes to remove the pvp flag or leave a pvp zone, put a timer on that player that retains the pvp flag for at least 1 hour. This means that if you leave a pvp zone you will have 1 hour of game time to remain pvp flagged and no you can't just log off and show up an hour later (it's game time, you have to reduce the time in-game. no exceptions).
    3. Remove the ability for players to keep their body parts when they lose in pvp. It doesn't make sense to let people with money never lose items. But it REALLY doesn't make sense to let them keep their trophies.

    What these two things would do is create a parallel track being pvp risk and pvp reward that can not be exploited so easily.

    What's the risk of doing this? PVP is already a very low population of players. I would argue this is in part because we reward people that are not flagged for pvp and people that are willing to take the risks of pvp are not given incentive to do so, they're only given more risk that could be avoided if they didn't flag.
     
  12. Wodin Folkvardr

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    Honestly it's sickening how quickly people PvP bash and blame the PvPer for something like this happening. And even if it didn't happen it's not about "is this happening" it's about "COULD this happen". The playerbase is small right now, most people know each other, once that number goes up on release exploits WILL happen if they CAN happen.

    I get that not everyone enjoys PvP; fine, I respect that. If the dev's want to take PvP out of the game so be it. Don't implement something and leave it broken because "well the PvPers were asking for it when they flagged".

    Pvper enthusiasts also want to play the game; visit towns, explore cities, train skills, do quests, use public trade. All of these things require (REQUIRE) walking into towns with many people who can openly attack a flagged player with no penalty yet have no way to defend themselves.

    I'm willing to be that a large majority of the PvP crowd would agree that we don't want to ruin the PvE crowds fun. We don't want to MAKE you pvp us. We want to enjoy the feature and get better in combat. We shouldn't be punished for putting on a flag saying "Hey, I like PvP, anyone else down?".

    ~Wodin
     
  13. Jefe

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    One question I have is, are there players that are doing this for their own fun or are they doing this to cause outrage and hope that they influence a change?

    They see something that they view is unfair. If they don't get a reaction on reporting, then the best way to bring it to the forefront is to bring it from and center by having it affect a larger pool of the population.

    Otherwise, there is the case that some people are just jerks.

    Maybe if they add more to the morality system then there can be marks based on such behavior. Such as using flag ambush nets you the Mark of the Destard (as it is a Dastardly deed). This locks in a ransom that you cannot remove from inventory but can be taken out of your hide. The mark persists until removed forceably.

    Whatever they do they need to make a decision and stick with it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
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  14. Black Tortoise

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    You guys are speculating a bit. It very well could be the beginnings of a greater system (such as one where you get ultra neg karma for doing it, and the risk actually outweighs the reward, albeit very insidiously).
     
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  15. Fister Magee

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    I sure hope it is part of an upcoming system that we do not know about yet.. I have flagged pvp for the record, and hope I'm killed often, honorably :) .. I am certain we are going to see the worst case scenario often once the population increases, and it will increase.

    One thing it does do, is creates a pvp area for myself anywhere I go :)
     
  16. Poor game design

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    I'm not speculating at all. There's video proof that this was not intended, not part of a larger system, not something the devs wanted to do, and in fact was something that all of the devs thought was a horrible idea. One member of the community, speaking for his guild thought this would be good for the game and begged the devs to do it. That's a fact that can't be denied.
     
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  17. Black Tortoise

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    As I said, you dont know if there is planned, or if there is already, a greater downfall for the exploiters of this feature. It could even be the beginnings of the murder system in SoTA, with players flagging themselves as PK before realizing the consequence.
     
  18. StrangerDiamond

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    but who ?! and more importantly... why ?

    [​IMG]
     
  19. StrangerDiamond

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    I think that is wishful thinking, the devs have said black on... well on the forums its grey on ... grey.. but yea they said there would be no negative karma path, no anti-virtue and no murderers...

    They said this game was PG-13 and the most we can expect is contraband hijacks and town sieges or such pre-scripted pvp events.

    I hope it was just a diversion and we'll see a true game :(
     
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  20. Spoon

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    I think that at this point you shouldn't say A without providing B which is the link to the hangout at the correct timeslot so that people can make up their own mind.
    You are making a very aggressive claim here so you should really back it up.

    I remember that hangout and I'd say that your "that's a fact that can't be denied" is a very subjective interpretation of what transpired.
    This since the request and the actual implementation differ in substantial ways.
    So you claiming that the player/guild request would be responsible for how Portalarium chose to implement the rule set is quite disingenuous and designed to hurt.

    Its like if I requested Portalarium should add "more PvP" into the game and they flagged everyone as PvP, then when players get upset, you come along claiming that it is my fault due to my my request and not due to how Portalarium interpreted and implemented the request.

    This is how Portalarium chose to implement it:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/release-23-instructions.39570/#post-448121
    "Temporary PVP Flagging: Avatars who have not enabled open PvP may now initiate attacks against open PvP Avatars. This requires selecting an open PvP Avatar, using a single target offensive glyph on them, and confirming your choice. Doing so forfeits the Oracle’s protection until you leave the scene, allowing any other Avatar to attack and slay you and claim your ransom. Note that using healing (or other beneficial glyphs) on open PvP avatars in your party will also flag you for open PvP for the duration of the scene."

    Now since you made the claim you need to find that corrobative "fact" of yours, so you need to dig up the hangout timeslot & link it here.
    If you don't, then you should really be more humble about it and go back and put in a lot more grayscale and caveats into those statements of yours.
     
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