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Focus Nerf kills tamers

Discussion in 'Release 38 Feedback Forum' started by Brass Knuckles, Feb 1, 2017.

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  1. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    The focus nerf alone is srs bsns even with food,constantan gear,inner calm near gm and potions its a bit anoyoing. But the effect on anyone playing a tamer its brutal since you lose over 200 focus off the top.

    Please lower pet focus drain on pets if were gonna keep this new focus thing.

    Edit: please add potion bars (or small 3 or 4 slot bar thats movable) 10 slots isnt enough now that potions have made a real appearence in the game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
  2. JamesKrieg

    JamesKrieg Avatar

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    I agree completely.. a lower level tamer can't survive with a pet out because you cannot heal yourself and a pet let alone use styles or spells without running out of focus quickly and if you get adds, all you can do is run, drop your pet and hope you get far enough out of range to rebuild focus. it is stupid, purely stupid.
     
  3. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer SOTA Developer

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    We've been needing to look at taming for a while now anyway. We agree taming needs a balancing pass soon. Hopefully in the next couple of releases.
     
  4. mass

    mass Avatar

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    Hopefully focus regen is also a work in progress? Maybe it's because I'm using a pet, but the pendulum seems to be swinging wide with every focus regen change.
     
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  5. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    Could this be in conjunction with a balance pass on summoned creatures?
     
  6. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    I agree they are weak (need a lil buffing) but they are only 1 skill (and level 1 is as effective as gm) vrs taming u need like 7 or 9 to be viable. The problem with taming is the xp investment is massive and you cannot even use ur pet now :( 250 focus drain vrs a summon is what less than 20?

    Mabey as you scale them thier focus cost increases but they actually become a bit stronger?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
  7. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    @Brass Knuckles

    I was just trying to point out that both taming and summoning suffer from the same basic problem (see below) and that it seems to make sense for the developers to tackle this problem while considering both the impact to taming and summoning.

    The Problem:
    1. If taming or summoning become too powerful, then all players will need to have a pet to be competitive in PVE or PVP. There are a lot of balancing issues to consider here, but that's that basic issue.
    2. Tamed pets (because they have so their own skill tree) seem likely to be more powerful than summoned creatures in the current system. However that's probably more of a design flaw with summoned creatures than what our goal should be.

    It seems to me that with tamed or summoned creatures there's no way to really balance them without making the tamer or caster less powerful the more powerful the creature they are using. There are all sorts of different ways we could do that, but most players don't want to hear that every time they tame a Ferocious Spider with 7000 hit points, it means their characters become 1 hit point slabs of meat that can be one shot killed by a rabbit.

    One solution might be to make tamed and summoned pets be more like an extra item slot. For example, you tame a wolf and it gives you increased night vision and moon attunement. You summon a Lich and it gives you increased death mastery and death attunement. Something like that.

    The ideal would be to find a way to allow players to summon a daemon (something truly horrifying) that would kill everything in sight, or tame a Dragon that would be equally menacing. But the way the game is designed it seems like that would quickly be abused and overpowering.
     
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  8. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    You have some great points, I think they need to remove summoning from all the magic trees and make thier own tree compedetive with the taming tree.

    And have the summons stack based on attunments in the specific line of thier origin. I.e. if u have high death attunment and death pet from the summon tree would be better.

    Doing this fixes the problem of the huge costs with taming and makes it easier to make the summoned ones scale.

    Instead of using taming colars as the money sink they could use binding colars or something. Idk really just Taming has huge xp and time costs and summons have none ballance that then ballance power. I still pay taming costs every time I die 110,000 xp loss on death its not all taming i know but I have almost 800 in the tree so it adds.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
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  9. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    In the case of the undead, I would be very disappointed if we used a "taming" system to summon them.

    They're undead, and really this should be handled by ritual magic. No collars, no "taming", it's different than that. I don't think making summoning it's on tree is the answer either (although I understand the logic).

    Ideally, I'd like to see summoning be performed as part of a new ritual magic system and the skill level a player has helps determine success and power of the creature. Instead of going out into the wild and "taming" something, this would be like crafting a "skeleton", complete with an animated corpse recipe. So I guess there would be kind of a crafting and magic mashup here, where you'd need the skill in the combat tree to actually USE a summoned creature, but you'd need the crafting tree to make it. (which is semi-consistent with the need to make collars in taming)
     
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  10. Jens_T

    Jens_T Avatar

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    One thought for summoning is that the player can decide how much focus he wants to invest, i.e the higher the focus drain (or other penalty like reduced movement, attunement...) the more powerful the summoned creature.
    If the summoner dies the creature would vanish or maybe go chaotic before it disappears..
     
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  11. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    With equivelent experience and time spent the power of these can be ballanced better. Right now since summoning has no investment they should be rubish however ther should be benifit going from 1 to 100.

    And I was not suggesting u tame them, a diffrent system just equal ballance.

    Kinda of side tracking the thread though.
     
  12. MrBlight

    MrBlight Avatar

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    Oh neat. Was going to say, taming is actually needing this exactly.
    Very good.
     
  13. Merv DeGriff

    Merv DeGriff Avatar

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    Given how attunement is ALL the skills in that tree, I'd beg to differ with 'its only one skill' Tie the summon's power to the skill's level and the caster's attumement. Getting attunement up is not trivial either.
     
  14. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    You forget the taming tree has a full tree of skills and there is no attument type benifits. All those skills require the pet your skills i.e. say chain lightning or fireball are usefull on thier own right.

    You have to level 11 skills ish to make your pet good vrs 1 level 1 pet in any magic tree not to mention a butt ton of silver and many hours in the mine for collars your gonna lose on hours of fails.

    If your suggestioning a summoned pet with attunment should = a tamed pet with much more xp used then the crafting requirements the mining requirements and time hunting and taming pets then it is I that beg to differ. I also have 800 points in the tree and get no attunment credit.

    On top all that u lose half your focus when u summon it(depending on pet and individual skill levels).
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
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  15. Merv DeGriff

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    I'm not denying that taming should have GOOD pets and not kill someone's focus completely. I'm just suggesting that also making summons more worth while and have them noticeably tied to attunement and skill would be good too. I think between an all GM sun mage and the all GM tamer, the tamer should have the more powerful pet. I also think that with high attunement and skill, the mage should be rewarded too.

    This is not a zero sum game man, we can both be happy with our pets... sheesh.
     
  16. Brass Knuckles

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    I dont think the strength of say the sun tree lies with the pet skill, it souldnt be crap but the pet in the tree is like the cherry on top where the taming tree is the whole desert and the plate investment wise.

    Example there is nothting u can do in the whole taming tree with out the pet, not the case for the sun tree.
     
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  17. StarWeed

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    In UO dragons were stronger than a single player or close to it. For a while you could have 5 of them.. it didn't break meta in PvP because A) you could out run them and B) when they died, it was a pain to replace them.

    I don't think you need a fully crippled pet/master to make pets fair, just appropriate risk/reward
     
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  18. JamesKrieg

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    when you have to tame a fairly high level pet it takes time, skill, friends to heal you.. it isnt like casting a mage pet.. where is there risk? taming is very expensive, summoning a pet takes considerable focus that is useless while the pet is out. not too fair to compare it to a casted pet. when a mage pet dies they recast it.. when a tmaes dies you have 5 mins to res it before it is lost. there is a lot that a tamer has to weigh in on when his pet is out and is fighting. Jeesh.. people think it is easy but it isnt. even the people that used cheats and exploits to gm taming don't use pets because the pets are too hard to replace when they are lost. mining silver, iron, getting leather, all the crafting to make the collars/whistles, asking people to heal you while you stand frozen in place each time you have to tame something while it beats you down... no.. you mages don't seem to understand.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
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  19. Laurana

    Laurana Avatar

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    Making summons a little better with skill doesn't take away from taming in any way. I don't think anybody is suggesting that they be as good as tamed pets, just that they actually get a little boost. There's no reason that putting the time into skilling up any spell shouldn't make it get better.
     
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  20. Brass Knuckles

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