Forced duplicate last names and reputation per account.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Grave Dragon, Oct 12, 2015.

?

Should Portalarium force last names and Reputation across all characters on an account?

  1. No, I want each character responsible for his/her own actions and uniquely identifyable.

  2. Yes, A Player's actions specific NPC interaction and all toon last names should be the same.

Results are only viewable after voting.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ristra

    Ristra Avatar

    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    5,442
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Athens
    That's a person to person rep, it's not tracked by the server in any way. Couldn't possibly track that. Has nothing to do with the equation.

    It's easy to demagogue this based on what OTHER (highlighted because we all get this) people are getting and bounce that off things we don't like.

    Any PvPer worth a squirt will take advantage of any system out there.
    Any crafter wanting to maximize their profits will find the way.

    What this brings to the RPer is debatable, there is the good and the bad, the good was enough to convince RG to allow more characters.
    I didn't follow that thread when it was active, doesn't matter any more, they made a choice and plan to go with it. Does it mean it's a dead subject, no, it means they have a plan and till the plan runs the course there is no way to test it.

    The last name might hold some reason for people to be dissatisfied but it's not a dead issue. When they implement the system the will want feed back. What is a dead issue is the fact that they will implement more than 1 slot.

    Things like last names have many pages of discussion left. Like the ability to hide the name or have it tucked away on some inspection sheet some where.
    If no one ever sees your linked last name it's a moo point.
     
    ship2 likes this.
  2. ship2

    ship2 Avatar

    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    461
    Trophy Points:
    18
    ok that's what I don't get. How is John Doe going to be bad? What kind of behavior are we talking about? So far, I can't see *any* possible way another person is going to affect me, apart from saying something I don't like. Maybe walk in front of me chanting "neener neener neener" or something like that.
     
  3. Ristra

    Ristra Avatar

    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    5,442
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Athens
    In PvP, it's all personal and written on note paper. Someone thumbed there nose at someone so that person brought the wrath of a full guild

    In game terms, the moral system is not in place, so the current state of the game there is none, but we know there will be a moral system.
     
  4. smack

    smack Avatar

    Messages:
    7,077
    Likes Received:
    15,288
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Sure, they can make it even more complex. Pick up a weapon, you get auto-assigned certain skills and are free to respec, or just go with the default.

    Nope, not at all. I have friends who want to go the all good path and others who want to go the all evil path. The story is going to play out differently for you depending on which path you take. Your character is affected by those choices/actions, and that's great. Your game will be affected by them and that's great too. But, without an alt, you are forced to play with one set of friends exclusively to share in those experiences. We have no idea what those experiences are, but we fully expect them to be separate based on our actions/choices.

    I want to be able to share those experiences with both sets of friends because I want to see both paths. That's called replayability. Hundreds of single player (offline) RPGs give you that freedom to finish the game one way, and then do it another way. I'm only suggesting here that by design, this game is forcing you to use an alt to achieve that online. Otherwise, sure you are free to do that offline as many times as you want. But if you want to share in those experiences with two sets of friends online, you are forced to use an alt. That's all I'm really saying here. You can play as the "real" you on your primary. To RP the evil alignment and share in those experiences you must use an alt.

    Nah, I think the tech is there for that. In game, when accessing your bank, it also looks for any linked accounts and shows you those other account's banks too. No design issues there really. Just a simple check.
     
  5. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

    Messages:
    18,188
    Likes Received:
    35,440
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    If I can use two characters, and you can only use one, then I can spy on you. I can befriend you with one character, and gank you with the other. I can join your guild with one, and be the bane of your existence with the other. I can always be in the right place at the right time because of the information I gain with my "good" account. I can never be held accountable because I always have another account to run to when thinks get too hot.

    But you know all this, and what's great is the devs do too. Which is exactly why characters are linked. Sure, you can buy another account but now you risk $45 every time you soil your last name on that account. It's awesome.
     
    Beno Ledoux, darkthrone451 and ship2 like this.
  6. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

    Messages:
    18,188
    Likes Received:
    35,440
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    But I digress...

    I'm done responding to this thread. I'm very happy that we're not changing what I consider to be very sound rules against multiple character exploitation.
     
    Beno Ledoux likes this.
  7. ship2

    ship2 Avatar

    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    461
    Trophy Points:
    18
    ok, thank you for the response. I guess I would say I would be looking out to be ganked, if in this game I'm in a situation where I'm able to be ganked at all and if you're a bad person, it's going to eventually come out no matter how many accounts you have. I just wasn't sure if there was something to this game I was missing.

    For the amount of money people are throwing around on this game (and how much I've spent on subs over the years) $45 is chump change. So I still regard this as a pointless and annoying mechanic, with respect to last names.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  8. Womby

    Womby Avatar

    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    12,165
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    South Australia
    It's been an interesting discussion so far, and it has helped clarify a few points for me. My take away from this is that:
    1. Richard Garriott does not want anyone to roleplay - from a moral perspective he wants us to be ourselves. If you wish to do so he cannot stop you, but you will need a different account for each of your roleplay characters.
    2. We are not being given multiple characters at certain pledge levels - regardless of any loose language from Portalarium our single character is merely being granted the ability to have up to three preset appearances and skillsets.
     
  9. syxs

    syxs Avatar

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    222
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    This is the issue as I see it because you can't play with 2 different sets of friends as the "alts" that the higher pledge levels give are not "alts" but your same rep and virtue across just different looks and skills not different rep/virtues. So if your going for one virtue on your main and your other is going for another they both count to your account wide rep/virtue. This penalizes people that want to use this system but doesn't for people that don't and that is what nobody has been able to refute in this thread yet. So if you want to play online with two sets of friends like that you would have to buy 2 different accounts.

    Also what some people seem to not understand about the rep system as has been explained by devs so far is its your interactions with the NPCs so if your a jerk to NPC or do the quick way of finishing the mission ie lie, cheat or steal then your going to get negative rep so if your good you get positive rep, they have said some people won't sell you things if you have negative rep and other won't let you buy from them(this is what I took away from a talk about it awhile ago). So your rep matters.

    Why are people being penalized for using this system when people that ignore it get more choices of characters?
     
  10. Ristra

    Ristra Avatar

    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    5,442
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Athens
    What's point of a moral system that reacts based on choices when you can have 2 characters that can play both sides of the reactions.
     
  11. syxs

    syxs Avatar

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    222
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    That is the reason I have been posting this and complaining about the system as it is. We have been told its not going to change by DarkStarr because RG laid out its still your "Soul" in whatever "Avatar" your in. Your alts are just other "Avatars" for your "Soul" in the lore and we have been pointing out this helps PVPers who don't care about cause they will want to have multiple characters ready for PVP and Guild vs Guild on different sides of the map. Or for crafters who want to have multiple characters setup for Grand Master crafting different types of items. It hurts people who wish to explore other story lines or decision points in the story. I have made multiple posts about this in the thread and yes I rehash a lot of it but I do that because nobody is answering the questions. DarkStarr and Lord British say they want open development but then turn around and DarkStarr says no this isn't going to change but I would rather them talk about it now before spending any time "developing" the shared rep/virtue system and see the problems and issues multiple people have said here then to wait and spend 40 hours then deploy it and people complain and ***** and have to re-develop it or remove it.
     
    ship2 and Budner like this.
  12. Womby

    Womby Avatar

    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    12,165
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    South Australia
    If you want to role play a different character then you will need to pay for another account. That seems reasonable - they are after all different identities, and should not automatically share a bank account or property permissions.

    The multiple "characters" that your pledge level might earn you are nothing of the sort. Much like switching loadouts, you are being granted the ability to switch first name, face, skillset and location from up to three presets. You are however still the same person with the same possessions and bank account.
     
    Beno Ledoux likes this.
  13. Jordizzle

    Jordizzle Avatar

    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    1,673
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    I disagree. Isn't this being called an RPG? Role playing game? If the premise is you playing you. .they should start referring to it as a YPG (You Playing Game) or (MPG Me Playing Game.) Now don't get me wrong. .I do love the game and intend on playing it. I just wish the game would follow the highly successful Ultima Online model when it comes to multiple characters is all. . just because I don't get my way, doesn't mean I made a poor choice. No regrets!

    I understand what is intended for the game, I'm just voicing my opinion so it may be changed, that's what this forum is for! The devs do listen, that's how we got gustballs, free attack, etc..
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  14. syxs

    syxs Avatar

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    222
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    This is the issue with this system Womby, it allows PVPers to abuse it to have multiple "characters" setup around the world without the travel time involved for PVP. The people with these free "character" slots that are crafters can use them to have specialized Grand Master crafters without having to worry about skill decay. People that don't care about the virtue or being a good or bad all the time can explore with the "characters" and ignore the virtues or lie, cheat and steal from NPC not caring that it might affect them. People who follow the Ideals or Spirit of the game can only explore one of the story lines in online mode. So if you play by the rules you only get one shot yes you could be a crafter with your other slots but you can't explore with friends the other parts without paying for more which means that it costs you more.
     
  15. Jordizzle

    Jordizzle Avatar

    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    1,673
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    Honestly, I do know why people want to be ale to see that I am both Jon Snow and Ramsay Bolton, I just don't feel the same way. It's so that I can't be mean to them with Ramsay, and then come along with Jon Snow and befriend them. They want to be able to immediately know my characters are one in the same so they can immediately know that I am someone they want to avoid.

    Well if I were to play as Ramsay, I would do things like, offer to help them hunt. .lead them into a pvp zone, and then in the middle of helping them I'd attack and kill them and try to loot something from them. Or if we ever do have stealing capabilities I would definitely try to steal from people. Just imagine any kind of a$$hole move that one could possibly do to someone (within the gameplay design and isn't a hack, or exploit) and that's what I would do.
     
  16. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

    Messages:
    4,065
    Likes Received:
    10,927
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kansas City
    But Darkstarr has already said this thing will not change.
     
  17. Ancev

    Ancev Avatar

    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    1,956
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In UO, if I banned someone from my house, it banned all characters on that account. I'm fine with that. But what I would like to see is the ability to disguise my identity ala the Incognito spell or the Thieves disguise kit in UO. It's fine if my identity is eventually figured out, but I would prefer that there are interesting tools in the game that allow this to happen. Such as a combination of consulting various NPC guilds (mages, thieves, assassins, town guards) to find information about criminals or having the oracle scry the location of the offending party. It could use the chaos magic (chaos step) mechanics to give you a picture of the area of where that character is, but only a general idea of the location so players would have to figure out the area by simply by viewing a picture. Similar to the concept of revealing the map in Heroes of Might and Magic series, except in this case you're putting pieces of the puzzle together in the form of pictures and information. Then you could track the criminal down and use the reveal skill to uncover their true identity, or the disguise kit or incognito spell has likely worn off anyway.

    Tree of Life (I hate to plug this game! but there are things to be learned from it) uses a literal criminal flag system, whenever you do something bad it drops a black/purple criminal flag that the victim can pick up and it shows the criminal's name. Would be interesting to see something like this implemented. In my thinking it would drop a flag of the incognito/disguise kit name, which is linked to the actual avatar, so when you scry them it links to their current location. It will never scry directly to a player's house or direct location, but in their general area. In Tree of Life my concept involved keeping one of these flags in your inventory and it allowed you to attack the player and bypass the rules of the criminal system. You would submit the criminal flag to the bounty board which would increase a player's bounty after reaching a certain threshold, and the flag would then be verified by the town guards and given back to you. For the purposes of Sota, anti-virtue would be assigned to all criminal deeds (?), but criminal flags would only be issued if an NPC or player witnesses the criminal deed. NPC's can pick up these criminal flags and submit them to the guards or the offending party. If you managed to find the player and reveal their identity and they happen to be in a town with guards, (Guards!) the guards would arrest that player. The player could choose to pay a fee, or receive some type of stat/skill debuff or other penalty. If they have a bounty, you'd be awarded the bounty. (how to implement it with out being abused?)

    I'm totally for a system of laws, and back in the day I designed what I thought was the 'ultimate' character development model that uses 'character souls', so this is starting to get interesting. I have no issues with virtue/anti-virtue being at the soul level. Players will buy new accounts so what I would do is create systems in the game that allow you to track down information about player's criminal activities. Specifically as it pertains to criminal behavior. So if an evil character is on a 2nd account, and he happens to be associating with his primary "good" account there will be a way to find that out. Once you have the information of the bad characters that are associated with good characters you can add them to your blocked/ban list of your properties. This would be a lot more complex to implement but I think it would tie in nicely with the virtue system and it would keep things interesting. I've always thought there should be a system of laws in persistent worlds and 'illegal' or disreputable types of items (poison) and activities (stealing randomly spawned goodies of value in NPC storage containers)...things that you CAN do, but virtue will catch up with you. And so will the law. Just some thoughts/ideas.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
  18. syxs

    syxs Avatar

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    222
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    And RG said before only one character per account. We need to engage the devs and have them answer our questions.
     
  19. Sold and gone

    Sold and gone Avatar

    Messages:
    4,621
    Likes Received:
    10,867
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere underground waiting to get you!
    i think we need to go back to the one char per account. look at all the problems the extra slots are causing
     
  20. Jordizzle

    Jordizzle Avatar

    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    1,673
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    I can't argue against that, I saw his posting myself. :D
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.