Founders, Benefactors, and doing the right thing

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by da.n.ynu.tk.os.@gmail.com, Feb 2, 2014.

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  1. da.n.ynu.tk.os.@gmail.com

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    I have not deleted anything.

    Also you are answering a question I did not ask. I agree that more people backing the game is a good thing, more money for the game is good, and I accept that there will be more founders. The questions I asked you were about why benefactors need to use the backdoor middle-man method. What benefit to the game is that? Why is it not better to just give all benefactors the same equal chance to upgrade by paying portalarium directly? That would result in more upgrades, because people don't have to go and find some stranger to trade money with. It would also eliminate the exploiting of referral credit that is happening now and put the referral system back to what it should be, and incentive to bring in NEW players.

    Do you disagree with that part of my arguments?
     
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  2. Nuemcy

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    more the merry and the better off we are as a whole :)... stones sharpening stones
     
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  3. Bohica

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    Aw man I hate to think how you guys feel if you thought about the fact that the April 7th deadline only refers to prices and not the ability to gift pledges.
     
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  4. Furious Farmer

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    I think it should be pointed out that not every benefactor is going to update to a founder level. Also the ability to upgrade from a benefactor to founder is only going to be allowed until 4/7/14. I would be willing to bet that a vast majority of players playing SotA at launch will not be founders. So the founder exclusivity will still be there, you just have a few more brothers and sisters. Also it has been stated that the date in which you first pledged will now count towards the window in which you can claim your property lot.
     
  5. Drocis the Devious

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    Sorry about that, it was a forum error.


    I think the reason Portalarium choose the method they did was political. I think they found a way to get some extra money and they took it. Just making all non-founders, founders, would've made them no money. The way they did it they could say that it was a way to get the community to network (which I believe is true) be it's a secondary reason for doing it.

    It's really as simple as them saying "hey all you people that follow the game right now...gives us $40 and we'll give you rewards or a $25 bonus in return". The way you're talking about would've given founders nothing.

    I do agree with you that it's not something that Portalarium doesn't want to become known for - changing the rules of the game as they go. I don't think they are doing this to be jerks though, I think they're clearly doing the best they can with the hand they've been dealt.

    So are you with them or are you against them? Again, we both agree the move is good for the macro long term success of the game. So what's the real problem here?
     
  6. Bohica

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    Carefull ;)

    We took a cue from our buds over at Star Citizen and decided that those who pledged during our initial campaign (at $25 First Responder tier and above) can purchase further tiers, or upgrade existing ones, at the same price they were available during the Kickstarter campaign, thru April 7, 2014 (pending availability of limited tiers)! WooHoo!

    From: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues-0/posts/448973
     
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  7. Nuemcy

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    @AdamZax Portalarium cannot do that, though it would be way easier and cause less stink, because of this exact view point on exclusivity these 'original' KS folks. I see Portalarium as bending over backwards in an attempt to make sure and sooth over the real world problems they have in order to cater to them.


    If anything at all I should be complaining that I didn't get more exclusive rights for stumbling upon the KS and STILL pledging even though it was already over... I have NO way of insuring my money by sending directly to them INSTEAD of through the KS!!
     
  8. Umbrae

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    This whole F vs B thing has had its share of mud throwing on both sides even before this issue. Just a little while ago it was the Benefactors on the other side. From my perspective the issue is done. Until the cut off there is not much difference. And if any B's that are now F's that does not respect the feeling of F's about this matter should be ashamed of themselves.

    I had someone approach me that was ashamed of their behavior about this issue, and found themselves having to now talk to Founders to get the thing they were fighting with them over. Not only would I have done it if I had the means, but another Founder did for them as well. This person was wise enough to realize that they were wrong in their feelings toward many Founders who in the end helped them out. If a Founder was nice enough to gift you, you should really ask yourself if you have acted in a way that would have that Founder do it all again now. You were given your time to vent, and there is no reason Founders should not be able to.

    Insensitivity has been prevalent on both sides of the issue, and its really time for it to stop. If you feel you were justified then it was your time then give the other side a chance to do so. Time for people to start showing some unity and stop with the animated gifs and references to whining.

    We are a community with one goal and that is to fund this game. That should be all it should take, and should be enough for us to respect each other opinions on the matter even if we disagree.

    Be happy but don't flaunt; Be upset but don't lash out.
     
  9. E n v y

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    I think youl find ....assuming you actual read the threads properly, I haven't complained about anything other than you acting in such a way to provoke further hostility.
     
  10. Drocis the Devious

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    The overall backer total hasn't gone up much in the last few days. 50 people maybe? I'm not sure about this, I know there's a counter somewhere.

    I also remember the devs having a goal of 50k users (about half what they had 6 months ago). We're no where near that goal. So again, having a larger base is probably key to the success of this game long term. I hope we're going to have enough people at release.
     
  11. Nuemcy

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    I can use edit too! "The way you talk you may as well take a large trout and slap it in the face of all founders who felt it meant something" ... sounds an awful lot like a complaint to me
    but, hey, I apologize if I come off as hostile, not my intent, I'm a passionate man (why my wife loves me so.. :)) and I get heated, but never to harm.

    edit: I also like to stir the pot to see what rises if you get me :)
    it makes me a better person to really see more input and what people REALLY think
     
  12. Joviex

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    Kickstarter Backers can Purchase/Upgrade Pledges at Initial Prices for One Year!

    We took a cue from our buds over at Star Citizen and decided that those who pledged during our initial campaign (at $25 First Responder tier and above) can purchase further tiers, or upgrade existing ones, at the same price they were available during the Kickstarter campaign, thru April 7, 2014 (pending availability of limited tiers)! WooHoo!

    -------------------------------

    No where in there does it say "and they will be elevated to KS founder status". All it references is SAME PRICE LEVELS.

    The fact is, they sold the exclusive level Founder as a KS reward. KS is way over.

    I could care less about titles or widgets , this smacks straight into the level of integrity Portalarium wants/has as a company.
     
  13. E n v y

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    Note my post "other than you".....

    The one with the trout.....that is you......you the one slapping the trout.

    Not quite sure what you mean by "I can use edit too"..... Well done I guess.
     
  14. Kain3

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    For clarification purposes: In my opinion there is no difference between someone who funded the game the 1st minute of the 1st hour of the 1st day, and someone who funds the game now, simply because the game is still in development. Large portions of the game remain a mystery and people funding the game at this very moment show faith in the Portalarium team. Is it such an important factor of the aforementioned faith the time at which you contributed? Is it not the purpose of all of us funding the game, to actually see it realized? The decision from Portalarium did not remove the actual value of your pledge, but instead remove on the emotional level. Still, even that doesn't compare to the actual funding boost which this whole thing generated. Remember, Portalarium is made of people who make a living out of this game.



    Just to clarify, I didnt mention the word complain, since I consider the purpose of those threads a form of feedback. I merely stated that we should start looking at the big picture , which is that at this moment Portalarium could use the funds. :)

    And to your question:
    Its possible that seeing that the original Founders might "kick" if they see that being a Founder isn't all that special anymore, so they thought that they would make a pseudo-system that will allow:
    1) To possibly bring the community together in aiding each other
    2) Add more funds to the project
    3) Give incentive not only to Benefactors, but to Founders as well with the pledge bonus.

    Yes, the referral bonus works as intended. Its just not between friends an family anymore, but between community members. Founders helping Benefactors helps bridging the gap the pledge distinction created in the first place.

    The $40 surplus hardly classifies as "screwed over" and I speak as a former Benefactor. Besides, now a new Founder (former Benefactor) gets the pledges in Founder prices. Think of it as a way for Portalarium to offer a larger-term discount on the pledges in order to boost the incoming funding. The alternative would have been to lower the prices of all pledges but nothing significant would change in the pledges themselves, so even with discount people would still be hesitant.

    Its not so bad, once you think about it. I dont see Founders over charging, the opposite infact. And its in a controlled environment (the Marketplace forums) where if anyone sees anything suspicious they can report it.
     
  15. Bohica

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    I made this point before. And it is a little bit of common sense.

    but here it is again:

     
  16. Nuemcy

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    there was an old old comedy joke about 'red snapper', might have come off as harsh if you didn't see it, me being an old guy :) and liking my own sense of humor most
    you edited out the 'complaint' part of your complaint, but didn't bring it forwarded in your next argument statement and it was a huge whole I stepped through.. edit: well, tried to anyway heh

    Edit: after thought..I'm a natural Tank I guess :cool: and I use comedy as my armor and sarcasm as my sword and sheild
     
  17. redfish

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    Whomever it is, don't go abusing fish like that.
     
  18. Joviex

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    And it is common sense to stand firm behind your funders if you wish to continue to get them to fund future endeavors.

    Someone also posted some common sense above. There is a counter on actual conversions of Bene to Founder.

    Do you really think it was worth it to start yet another split in the community over something like 50+ conversions so far?

    At what point does it become worth it? If the number is small enough, would it have been worth it to just say sorry, we cant keep that promise because of the bad taste in our mouths from the broken gifting/melding system, and how it can be gamed?

    For you, and all those in the marketplace, I would wager, it would have been better to not offer this "gift upgrade" and the noise level would amount to less than the 50+ they have converted.
     
  19. da.n.ynu.tk.os.@gmail.com

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    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything with tagging you, just wanted to get your attention to my reply.

    You make legitimate points about bringing the community together, even if I don't agree with it.

    When I talk about benefactors being screwed over, I am not talking about being overcharged or having to pay the $40 or anything like that. I am talking about the ones who miss out on the opportunity to upgrade because they don't follow the forums, or are not able to beg a gift from someone, or are simply not comfortable in using a stranger to do a change of money. Those people miss out on the chance to upgrade, which means they miss out not only on lower tier prices but a huge amount of founder exclusive items as well. They miss out on it because of paying Portalarium directly instead of using a middle-man to exploit the loophole. That's what I mean when I talk about benefactors being screwed over.
     
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  20. Nuemcy

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    Very wise words Joviex
     
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